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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Have you seen the Emma Watson Speech?

372 replies

Sallystyle · 22/09/2014 07:19

Awesome

www.upworthy.com/her-voice-might-tremble-but-emma-watsons-message-is-strong-and-clear?c=ufb1

I don't know how old it is or anything but it is really good

OP posts:
JustTheRightBullets · 23/09/2014 08:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DoctorTwo · 23/09/2014 09:12

Like rape is about power not sex

DS and I have discussed this, and he's pointed it out to his friends too. He gets it, he really does.

it's about violating her privacy.

Completely agree again. It's one thing for her to choose to share her private life and quite another to have it stolen against her will.

BiggerYellowTaxi · 23/09/2014 09:48

Can I just ask, why are you so sure that these differences are due to gender and not them having different personalities/temperaments?

BiggerYellowTaxi · 23/09/2014 09:48

Oops wrong thread Blush

dratsea · 23/09/2014 12:24

U2 and other early posters, sorry this got hijacked by the trolls, but thank you for the link to a fantastic, meaningful and thoughtful speech from a 24 yr old. I have saved it for my children, and theirs.

ps to get her age I went to G and had only to type Emma and she was top of Google, massive respect!

ArcheryAnnie · 23/09/2014 12:24

God forbid a smart woman give her opinion in public without a raft of asshole men immediately punishing her for it.

(I think she's fab.)

tabulahrasa · 23/09/2014 12:42

Front page of the star today...I saw it at the shop, I don't know what's inside because I'm not buying it, but :(

Have you seen the Emma Watson Speech?
MrsWhiskersonTheFirst · 23/09/2014 12:54

I think she made some good points about men. I'm not sure why people are objecting to them.

farfallarocks · 23/09/2014 13:08

She is a legend.

BriarRainbowshimmer · 23/09/2014 13:12

Can patriarchy get anymore transparent?

Make a speech about feminism, equality and men suffering too, immediately be reduced to naked "Harry Potter babe"
It's not a shock. Same old shit.

chariotsofire · 23/09/2014 13:18

I agree it was a great speech. Sadly the first I heard about it this morning was just a small quote about her being sexualised which gave the impression the Harry Potter films were to blame and totally misses the 'headline' of her speech that equality cannot be achieved by 50% of the human race.

Seems like the choice of that quote is another sad example of women only being seen as sexual beings.

millie19 · 23/09/2014 13:26

She's a voice that hopefully daughters & sons will listen to for the future, even if our generation don't or won't. My DD is 7 & DS is 5 and I hope that along with EW, A Mighty Girl (on Facebook - American led but the message is basically the same as EW's) and confidence from parents/carers and I would hope school as well, that they grow up in an environment where my DD knows she can achieve as much as her brother. there is no need for it to be boys v girls, girls (women) paid less than boys (men) etc etc. am currently reading Lean In by Facebook COO about her gender inequality struggle. Quite frankly that we in the 1st World still behave the way we do is embarrassing.

HesterShaw · 23/09/2014 13:35

Briar it's revolting isn't it? It's like she's being punished by them. "How dare you be anything other than our wank fodder, girl."

PetulaGordino · 23/09/2014 13:46

she is literally being punished for stepping out of line. more proof if it were needed

Thumbwitch · 23/09/2014 13:53

Dratsea - what "trolls" are you talking about, exactly? No one has "trolled" on this thread that I can see Hmm

nomdemere · 23/09/2014 13:57

An excellent speech. Releasing nude photos of anyone without that person's permission should be illegal IMO. No one has a right to see anyone else naked against their will.

Thumbwitch · 23/09/2014 14:10

Well nom - hacking the cloud storage (iCloud, isn't it?) of those photos is illegal in itself, I'm pretty sure, so I don't suppose they give a stuff about releasing the hacked photos. I hope they get caught though.

Estorilian · 23/09/2014 14:23

It's a fantastic speech and it's good that it's getting so much coverage. I'm appalled that it's been met with a trolled response... but should we be surprised? Also, should we read too much into that response (when the general response has been both very positive and widely disseminated)?

I find it interesting that the (re)actions of a minority - and a minority that contains both sexes btw - is used as concluding 'proof' of an imbalance of equity between the two sexes as classes. In my view, the very few people that inhabit the porn and lulz-obsessed world of 4chan etc are not representative in any useful way. However, they are often pushed forward as representing the underlying core beliefs of society and I think that's hugely disingenuous. Which leads me to wonder why that is; to what end are we encouraged to think of a hate-filled pervert lurking in every man's subconscious?

The (predominantly Western) world has taken great strides in terms of equality in a single generation; that should be held aloft as a huge achievement when considered against the centuries of imbedded societal structures. Held aloft and shown to those countries and cultures where such change is lagging behind. Instead, there is a concerted effort to dismiss those achievements and over-state the extreme rather than the norm. Why?

In some way, I suspect this adds to Emma Watson's point: the damaging effects of gender stereotypes are relavant to both sexes. Both... However, that cause is not helped by society (and men in particular) not feeling completely 'onboard' with the feminism. I agree with Emma Watson that many men need to take more of an interest in this issue and participate more. However, I also think it's worth looking at the barriers to men's participation in what needs to be an honest and probably uncomfortable discussion and, in that regard, I think that there are some things that feminists can do too because, at the moment, the only positions available to men are the diametrically opposed; we have the 'feminist' men and we have, for want of a better word, the MRAs and there is no room for the middle ground who will be discouraged by the presence of those former two groups and the intensity and savagery of the debate.

I acknowledge that it is against the principles of many feminists to do this; they will be appalled by the suggestion that they need to make the discussion more open to men's voices. If we acknowledge that there are still problems, however (and I'm guessing that my assessment of outstanding issues is lower than many people's) then we ought to be open to how to deal with them.

Bifauxnen · 23/09/2014 14:27

Like rape is about power not sex... it's about violating her privacy.

I'm trying to articulate why I think photoshopped ones are just as bad as real stolen ones, and it relates to this ^ point.

I also think the comment about "I would have released mine myself" lacks understanding of how they are used as a weapon to undermine not just the actresses' but women as a whole.

BriarRainbowshimmer · 23/09/2014 14:36

the very few people that inhabit the porn and lulz-obsessed world of 4chan etc are not representative in any useful way

You make it sound like 4chan only has about 10 posters, and that the misogynist attitude on that site is some isolated phenomenon. It's not, look at the Daily Star cover above.

WorkingBling · 23/09/2014 14:41

I think her message is brilliant. Feminism can't do it with just women. Men need to be engaged too. Partly because annoyingly they still hold so much power. And partly because a woman can stand up and say what she thinks and believes or behave in a certain way at work but if all those men in power don't see it that way then it won't do any good.

I dread bringing up a daughter who believes she can do anything but who then finds, when out in the world, that her behaviour is judged differently to the man sitting next to her.

Thumbwitch · 23/09/2014 14:45

Estorilian - you might think it's not representative in any way, but there are a huge number of people who do think like that.

I've been given an insight into some FB groups that are populated by people who are less well educated, less well off etc. and, while this attitude in no way is restricted to this group of people, it abounds there. It's been a real education, and a real shock - because I don't know people like that in RL (apart from my Australian friend) - and yet still the Sun is the highest selling newspaper in the UK. I know a number of men claim it's because it has the best sports coverage Hmm but really?

I'm not saying any of this to try and be clever, or superior - I'm just sharing my own recent eye-opening experiences of discovering huge numbers of people who have views that are completely alien to me and my group of (largely middle class and well educated with reasonable jobs) friends.

Estorilian · 23/09/2014 15:11

Briar

I agree that there appear to be huge numbers of, what I called, hate-filled perverts online. From 4Chan to the comments section of the newspapers, there is such a plethora of mean-spririted, callous and sexually-obbsessed content that one could start to feel distinctly misanthropic. Yet, I would still suggest that this is not representative of society as a whole - I think I am correct to call this nasty collective a minority. I also think that what they say is not actually a true representation of their actual views necessarily, but the sort of vitriloic hyperbole that people amuse themselves with when hiding behind an online persona.

The motivation for the Star is different though, isn't it? It deliberately sets out to attract attention and generate revenue. That being the case, the question is how to educate attitudes such that the sexualised representation at that level of the media is rejected by the public. We need the people that buy, say, The Star, to understand and respond to this debate that you , me and emma Watson are having. This brings me back to my point; if we say that the Star and its readers are all in cahoots to silence women for having opinions, they won't recognise that theory and will dismiss it.

PuffinsAreFicticious · 23/09/2014 15:21

All media outlets set out to attract attention and revenue. They aren't, as the resident MN daily fail reporter so regularly tells us, charities.

The point is that 4Chan, by timing this release alongside Ms Watson's speech have subverted what she has said, that men and women need to recognise what feminists have been saying for years, that Patriarchy harms men too, and that men need to work with women to smash Patriarchy. They have ensured that, despite media outlets reporting on the speech, they are also going to be reporting on her as a sexual being, and their violation of her rights. It dilutes the message. It's a sign of Patriarchy desperate for men not to hear that message.

PetulaGordino · 23/09/2014 15:22

many women experience silencing tactics when they step out of line. this happens to be a particularly high-profile situation.