Just got on a train...

[Vivacia]

...sat actions from a table of four men discussing paying for sex. I couldn't believe my ears at first, wasn't really listening and then it became clear.
Finished with, "the only time I paid for It is the day I got married".

And really, that's the best you can do? Trafficking has stopped into the countries which have adopted the NM, they are seen as poor investments. Attitudes to men like you are changing, the correct person is being stigmatised, the punter. Punters are being seen for what they are. Not because they are sparsely populated, but because punters are sad losers who need to rape women for money.

So yes, in my considered opinion, I think that, done in the same way, the NM would work wonders in Germany, and thankfully there are a growing number of people who agree and are campaigning for it to be introduced. Decriminalisation in Germany has caused more problems than it was designed to solve. So you won't be able to go there and rape women for money soon either, hopefully.

Chaos, you missed that he said Farley!

OP, men talking about sex in that way in public places is crap.

I live in Germany and it's mostly nice but the sex industry thing is horrible, you see adverts for brothels on the advertising space in supermarket trolleys and on giant billboards. To get from our part of town to the centre of town you travel through the red light district and even though that is up a side street, there are two bars on the main road with pictures of women posing in their underwear advertising "live girls". (Dead ones are out of fashion clearly )

About the toilet argument - I clean my own toilet for no money, quite willingly. I would clean a friend's or family member's toilet if perhaps they were struggling and I wanted to help them out. I used to clean the toilets at work for no extra pay. I wouldn't shag somebody else's husband if they were too tired/ill/depressed to, because men are people who have relationships, and not toilets which get dirty and need cleaning. So that analogy fails in two ways.

"About the toilet argument - I clean my own toilet for no money, quite willingly."

How about the toilets at nightclub? Would you clean them for free?

Way to miss the point by selectively quoting, punter279.

feministire.com/2014/01/05/sex-trafficking-in-sweden-according-to-the-swedish-police/

re trafficking in Sweden, the police don't actually what the extent of the problem is.

"So yes, in my considered opinion, I think that, done in the same way, the NM would work wonders in Germany, and thankfully there are a growing number of people who agree and are campaigning for it to be introduced. Decriminalisation in Germany has caused more problems than it was designed to solve. So you won't be able to go there and rape women for money soon either, hopefully."

Every country has its share of feminists who want criminalisation of some sort. However France recently rejected the Nordic model, Scotland has rejected the Nordic model more than once in recent years, and I don't see Germany changing its law any time soon.

btw prostitution in Germany is regulated, not decriminalised.

Lucky punter279 is here, as I've only got Rachel Moran unchecked onU bingo card...

I thought PBPs were supposed not to come back and dribble again?

they can if they get another IP address and email. then they can just sign in with another consonant/vowel/consonant/vowel/consonant/vowel/consonant/vowel/consonant/vowel

Wonderful. Oh well. Back to unpacking, I'll leave the boring twunt in your capable hands.

The more these trolls invade MN with their misogynistic rhetoric, the more I am in favour of the Nordic Model.

It just cements in my mind how women-hating these scumbags who pay for sex are.

I find it difficult to imagine that there are many people that couldn't be bought to enage in sexual activity. For some maybe it would be a million... but the act remains fundamentally the same. So, whilst it is certainly true that there is exploitation*, there are also women that are at ease with making a financial arrangement and do so willingly and independently. Such absolutism as can be seen in this thread further distances the Feminist movement from the majority of men and women who do not recognise that portrayal.

• An important aspect of this, of course, is that it is probably impossible to be absolutely sure that the man or woman is not being exploited and, therefore, be certain that one is not committing rape. I say man or woman there because, obviously, there are many male prostitutes. Quite how the mantra of 'prostitution is 100% about men controlling women' stands up iro male prostitutes, I'm not sure. No doubt some mocking censorian will now tell me that this point was debated and agreed by feminists years ago and isn't up for discussion anymore, least of all with the likes of me who is, after all, a stupid misogynist MRA troll (not all internet contributors are created equal don't ya know ;) )

Anyway, I'll let you all get back to your foaming.

"An important aspect of this, of course, is that it is probably impossible to be absolutely sure that the man or woman is not being exploited and, therefore, be certain that one is not committing rape."

a crucial point surely, rather than a footnote

Quite how the mantra that you've just invented stands up to anything is a mystery.

Oh wait, it doesn't, and no one but you said it.

glovender usually comes here to cut through the "foaming" i think. either way, likes to show us the irrational errors of our ways or somesuch