5 questions for people who advocate legal prostitution

[AskBasil]

genderdetective.wordpress.com/2014/08/10/five-questions-for-people-who-advocate-legalizing-prostitution/

Made me fink

"migsymoo Sat 30-Aug-14 21:45:28
Having sex for money isn't painful. Why is everyone making assumptions. Yes protect women by making working together legal. That's all, it's not a drastic change in the law but would drastically change prostitutes safety."

Be quiet prostituted woman. We feminists know more about prostitution than you do.

No one has told Migsy to be quiet femminee so pretending they have looks as though you haven't actually got an argument.

What Basil said. Migsy has been here a while, Feminnee if you have anything constructive to add, go ahead.

glasgowsexworker.wordpress.com/2012/11/27/our-bodies-our-selves/

An article on the Swedish model by a sex worker, sorry "prostituted woman".

quote:
"Pop quiz! You are a sex worker living in a country that has adopted the Nordic model. Which of these forms of evidence-gathering would you prefer? You may pick one.

a. Condom-possession. Prepare to have your safer-sex precautions produced in court as evidence that a commercial sex act was on the cards.

b. The police non-consensually video your sex life. Y’know, clandestinely.

c. The police conduct an intimate physical examination.

This is of course a trick question, because generally in jurisdictions that have adopted the Nordic model, all of these forms of evidence-gathering are used. In Sweden, even distributing condoms can be seen as “encouraging prostitution”."

migsy I don't want to bring up things you have previously said about your experiences but your previous descriptions of your life do not sound like free choices that you are happily continuing. You have also talked about how much money you make and who takes shares from you. That directly contradicts the myth put out by the previous punter poster that women working indoors make lots of money. It's hard to imagine from your descriptions of your life (which have been pretty bleak) how women working together would change anything for you. Do you think it would? Would you leave your "friend" and work with another woman instead? Or would he have you sharing a flat with someone else and take the same amount from you?

Well, the more people you have sex with, the more and various HPV you are exposed to. Condoms do not prevent this. Chronic HPV causes cervical cancer. So really yes, sex is.damaging in an aggregate rather than probability sense, for.women. Not really like.car use, in that sense.

I just think that men think the idea of someone penetrating them with their penis for money is massively different than penetrating a.woman who wouldn't have sex with you given an actual choice. I don't recognise that difference as significant in degree. Where's the LP, can't get decent work family man prostitute trope? Nowhere.

"Chronic HPV causes cervical cancer. So really yes, sex is.damaging in an aggregate rather than probability sense, for.women"

HPV also causes penile cancer, albeit at a lower rate than cervical cancer. HPV also causes throat cancer (via oral sex) and anal cancer (via anal sex).

So what you can say, really, is that sex can be dangerous. This danger is not limited to women, and it is not even just limited to PIV sex.

"Condoms do not prevent this."

Actually, condoms are shown to offer rather impressive protection against cervical cancer. See where it says "In the HPV study, published in Thursday’s New England Journal of Medicine, none of the women who reported that their partners always used condoms developed lesions during the three-year period. Fourteen women whose partners used condoms less regularly got lesions."

Condoms can't prevent transmission of the warts (also caused by HPV) that are not covered by the condom. Warts are caused by different strains of HPV than the ones that cause cervical cancer, though.

All STDs are passed on much easier from male to female and from male top to male bottom. It is riskier as a woman.

Things have changed and we are together now so he's not just my friend. Im watched over when I work now which makes me feel safer but I do remember what it was like before and wouldn't like other girls to feel as I did. I don't know how unsafe sex with a condom is though, i thought it was very safe and prevented std's.

Condoms reduce the likelihood of some STDs but some they have less or no affect on eg HPV and herpes and pubic lice. If course condoms do fail sometimes too.
They are infinitely better than using nothing but are not 100%.

migsy are you still paying him 40%?

misgsy, have you thought about why he watches over you? Or why he isn't working himself?

I did ask Migsy earlier, when she spoke about money shortage, why her partner could not work as a prostitute himself as he clearly thinks prostitution is fine. But got no answer.

Migsy, why doesn't he? That would solve your money difficulties and allow you to do the course you want to do. Seems only fair.

Good point, Grimble. Migsy, you've been busting your ass for him for however long, maybe time he busted his so that you can fulfill your potential. 60% of a nurse's salary might not be much, but anything has got to be better than your 'partner' sitting in another room of a flat he makes you pay rent for listening to you being fucked by other men for money, surely?

I#m pretty sure if I cared even a tiny but about my partner listening to them being fucked by someone for cash would be more than I could handle. Espeially when I could get a job.

Do you think he would still be happy to be with you if you caught AIDS or some other serious STD?

When iirc they had to stop production of all porn in the valley because 2 'actors' were found to be HIV+. You'd think porn was exploitative enough without campaigns to make it less safe.

YY WWIT, you'd have to be a really special kind of asshole to be able to sit and listen to someone you're supposed to care about getting fucked every which way but Tuesday without thinking that it might be a good thing if you got a job. Unless he not only earns money out if but gets off on it as well.

I think the main problem with that article is the idea that making it illegal/making it disappear overnight would solve any of those problems. It wouldn't. (1) It would give people with few options fewer option, (2) those women would be even more economically disadvantaged [and he ignored disabled and trans women who do make a large percentage as well], (3) most major industries these days are built upon and extort through colonialism, genocide, femicide, white supremacy, patriarchy, racism, and classism or any other part of the kyriarchy, which is why (4) male voices like the blog post's writer get more air time to discuss and prioritise what they see as the issues within any industry, [and why women sex workers, particularly those in the categories discussed, get the least amount of voice in the conversation], and (5) eliminating prostitution wouldn't teach anyone more respect for women and wouldn't make people in other sex industries better (and this part ignores that in many parts of the global sex trade, women are the main buyers and this is interlinked with racism, classism, and exotification of men of colour in representation).

The reasons to get rid of prostitution could be said of many modern industries (yes, down to rape and death) and is putting the cart before the horse. We need to fight (and eat) kyriarchy in all it's forms, take apart and build new systems, give real opportunities and equality to the groups discussed because without that we'd just be making them more vulnerable. If the studies say they would leave if they could that pretty much means that there are no options so what good is taking only one away without doing anything else first? It's just cart before horse and rather paternalistic and exuding privilege to think if we top down took that away that people would make 'better' choices and think better without getting real input and putting anything in place.

Seems to be working ok in Sweden. 15 years no prostituted women dead. Germany and the Netherlands where it's all legal and lovely and women get to 'choose' to be exploited by men, how many dead?

And yes, I know, there has been one prostituted woman killed in Sweden, however, she was killed as a result of ongoing domestic violence perpetrated by her ex partner, so, nothing to do with her 'work'

spork's congratulations on a concise distillation of all the nonsense in liberal feminism / women-last progressive politics. Do nothing about exploitation of women until some magical revolution will free us all from every form of oppression. How will this happen?

A large percentage of women in prostitution are disabled? Really? Of course the writer must be castigated for daring to discuss women without focussing on transwomen.

We need to fight (and eat) kyriarchy in all it's forms

So why shouldn't we abolish prostitution? This makes no sense.

"in many parts of the global sex trade, women are the main buyers"

where?

Exactly Briar. Prostitution is the world's oldest oppression (I didn't think of that). Seems like a good place to start.