Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

FloraFox · 25/01/2015 22:21

fatbloke are you a freeman of the land? Either way, don't give up the day job.

scallopsrgreat · 25/01/2015 23:36

Look, there is no other option but to fuck a drunk woman.

I mean, what else could Ched do? He went to that hotel room with the sole reason to fuck a woman. Who that woman was didn't matter. Neither did what she thought or felt. He had no choice really. His mind was made up before he got into the room. He couldn't possibly have changed his mind. His feelings matter, after all. In fact you could say she raped him. What with her being there. And available. On a bed. She took his choices away.

Oh wait...

HouseWhereNobodyLives · 26/01/2015 07:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PetulaGordino · 26/01/2015 07:55

Yes I can't help reading these long-winded and clutching-at-straws posts by desperate men without feeling that they are shit-scared because out there is a woman (or women) who remember them as their rapist

Yops · 26/01/2015 08:16

Don't you think there has been a sea-change in attitudes across the UK over this? Twenty years ago, this would have been brushed under the carpet. The Police wouldn't have cared. Football fans would probably have been chanting funny ditties about him from the terraces as he knocked in a other goal for their team. But now you have the police instigating the rape charge, and hundreds of thousands of male football fans standing against him playing for their club..

When balanced against a few internet trolls, I think it's a massive shift in attitudes.

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit · 26/01/2015 08:29

Not enough of a change to stop his victim being hounded and threatened.

YonicScrewdriver · 26/01/2015 08:31

Yy Petula.

I don't get this - it's a judgement. Of course both sides had a case to make and the judge and jury weighed them up. As is true in the vast majority of court cases, unless the accused has pleaded guilty. The jury listens to the evidence, if there are any points that can't be taken into consideration, the judge directs accordingly, the jury reaches a judgement.

Some people seem to think that if a counterargument exists, whatever it might be, that's sufficient to say there shouldn't be a conviction. They are wrong.

HouseWhereNobodyLives · 26/01/2015 08:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 26/01/2015 10:00

Someone on twitter argued, apparently seriously, that the court never said Ched Evans is a rapist. I had to LOL darkly to myself. I mean, if a rape conviction is not saying someone is a rapist, then what is? Confused

AnyFucker · 26/01/2015 10:47

God, there is simply no accounting for stupidity like that.

FloraFox · 26/01/2015 11:14

Seriously sabrina? Twitter really does highlight how stupid some people are. It's actually terrifying that these people walk among us.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 26/01/2015 11:22

J M B ?@JahMMARastafari Jan 19
@littlemiss_maxy @kylieAnnEvans @GTM992 @rhallam07 No, the court never said that Ched "is a rapist".

Yup. He seems to have missed the fact that a rape conviction in court does mean exactly that Ched Evans is a rapist.

I really shouldn't look up the Ched Evans twitter feed - it's not good for me.

PetulaGordino · 26/01/2015 11:44

What part of "you have been found guilty of rape" does not mean "you are a rapist"?

Is it some sort of philosophical debate??

YonicScrewdriver · 26/01/2015 11:49

Is it "hate the sin, love the sinner" territory?

venusinscorpio · 26/01/2015 11:51

Some people seem to think that if a counterargument exists, whatever it might be, that's sufficient to say there shouldn't be a conviction. They are wrong.

That's totally it. They don't get that "beyond reasonable doubt" means that the balance of the evidence (witness testimony and other evidence, here the CCTV of the victim in the kebab shop etc) supports the verdict to the extent that the jury reasonably make the judgement to convict. The key word is "reasonable". Not that there can be no possibility for any doubt whatsoever and as long as the defendant has any sort of rubbish explanation at all then it must be accepted by the court and he must walk free. If there is evidence against his version of things then his word may not be enough.

AnyFucker · 26/01/2015 12:16

Indeed. If that were the case we should unbolt all the doors of all our prisons and let them all the convicted prisoners go free.

Fatbloke1 · 26/01/2015 17:10

"I think the bit that might have been extremely damaging in his own account was when he told the police that he asked CM if he could have a go, and did not ask the excessively drunk teenager herself."

I did say in my last post;

"It’s no good relying on the argument that Ched Evans asked Clayton McDonald if he could join in, rather than asking the complainant directly. The point of both their evidence, is that the question of Ched Evans joining in WAS asked in the presence of the complainant, that the complainant heard and understood the question, and responded by saying yes, or words to that effect."

"It is therefore clear, that as far as McDonald and Evans are concerned, the complainant did consent to sex with Evans, after previously consenting to sex with McDonald."

Fatbloke1 · 26/01/2015 17:14

"Some people seem to think that if a counterargument exists, whatever it might be, that's sufficient to say there shouldn't be a conviction. They are wrong."

Absolute crap!

This is a free country. If there is a counter argument, then I am perfectly entitled to make it and if you don't like me putting up a robust, structured argument, as to why I think the conviction was unsound....TOUGH!

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 26/01/2015 17:18

Jury deliberations are in private, so we don't know.

It's entirely possible that they considered her unable/incapacitated by alcohol to such an extent that she was unable to consent to a man who had just appeared in the room with her, and that she didn't know.

I would remind you that the jury found him guilty "beyond reasonable doubt" not "beyond a shadow of a doubt" - that's our criminal justice system.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 26/01/2015 17:20

I hate to break it to you, but your argument isn't robust, fatbloke.

You're argument amounts to "I don't think what Ched Evans did amounts to rape" and the law says different.

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 26/01/2015 17:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PetulaGordino · 26/01/2015 17:30

I think we're watching a worldview being shaken. Suddenly it no longer makes sense. It's rather curious to observe

venusinscorpio · 26/01/2015 17:31

That wasn't at all what she said, was it though? That you weren't allowed to make your "counterargument"? It's telling that you didn't grasp the point she was making.

And it's only a "robust" argument in your esteemed opinion. In a free country, people are perfectly entitled to point out what a load of rape apologising shit it is.

YonicScrewdriver · 26/01/2015 17:32

You can post anything you like on the internet.

The simple posting of it doesn't make the conviction unsound, though.

DownstairsMixUp · 26/01/2015 17:32

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.