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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

ifyourehoppyandyouknowit · 21/01/2015 20:06

Victim blaming is also poorly tolerated.

FloraFox · 21/01/2015 20:08

"Yes, the complainant speculated that her drink may have been spiked. But that wasn't the prosecution's case."

But it WAS included in the prosecutions evidence

No it wasn't. The prosecution counsel asked questions about this but did not lead any evidence.

As I have made perfectly clear, I have trawled through many sources, not just the Ched Evans Website. Did you not take that on board?

You weren't in the courtroom though so you're wasting your time.

This is not repeat NOT on the Ched Evans website. There are other reports which are also NOT on the Ched Evans website and for all your banging on about me not being there - the above report comes from a reporter who was!

The reporter didn't comment on whether he thought this evidence pointed towards the woman being too drunk to consent as that would be contempt of court. The jury obviously thought it did.

Thus far, I have resisted the temptation to use offensive language towards you in this discussion - do you think you might do the same in future?

Get to fuck with that. This is fucking Mumsnet.

HouseWhereNobodyLives · 21/01/2015 20:09

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HouseWhereNobodyLives · 21/01/2015 20:15

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SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 21/01/2015 20:26

The victim vanishes inexplicably into thin air at one point on that cctv evidence Confused

I don't agree that it's evidence that wasn't extremely drunk - it a series of still photos run together. It'e not showing her actual movements. Whereas the man who actually saw her that night, the night porter, testified that she was extremely drunk - as did the taxi driver.

It's questionable how CE's fanclub even got hold of that cctv footage - since it's been reported that neither the police/CPS or the Premier Inn gave permission for them to use it.

sashh · 21/01/2015 20:37

Can I just add that IF her drink had been spiked, depending on the drug used and what was tested for there could well have been no evidence in her bloodstream.

Rohypnol (not the only drug) is eliminated from about 4 hours after it is administrated, so IF her drink had been spiked at 3.00am and IF it was rohypnol then her blood would needed to be tested before 7am and tested for the right thing.

We know she did not wake up until about 12.00 pm

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 21/01/2015 20:41

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HouseWhereNobodyLives · 21/01/2015 20:42

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cadno · 21/01/2015 20:51

When I worked in criminal defence, it was expected that CCTV footage would be returned back to the CPS after the trial. Mind you, no-one ever chased us up about it.

HouseWhereNobodyLives · 21/01/2015 20:53

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Fatbloke1 · 22/01/2015 18:03

"I watched the CCTV on the CE Website of the purported complainant and CM entering the hotel and of her going out back out to collect the pizza. She certainly doesn't look extremely drunk from that. However, I wonder why they decided to edit approx 30 seconds out of the video from 4:09 onwards. Did they think people would get bored? One second she's in frame, in the next shot she's disappeared. Begs the question as to what happens in that period - does she fall over ?"

Interesting point Cadno, I hadn't spotted that. The complainant is there in the frame timed 04:09.00 and the next frame is timed at 04:09.33. So the question is just what happened in the missing 33 seconds?

Just before she disappears, you can see the taxi drive off and CM run out of the frame to the LEFT. Presumably, this is because the complainant realized that she did not have her handbag as the taxi drove off, said something to CM, and he then ran after the taxi in an attempt to retrieve it. Of course he failed, because it wasn't in the taxi, as she'd actually left it in the take away, before she even approached CM.

But After the the missing 33 seconds, we see both the complainant and CM walk back into the frame from the RIGHT! So, applying a bit of logic; during that missing 33 seconds CM must have re-appeared from the left of the picture and both he and the complainant must then have moved from left to right, so that they moved out of the picture to the right of the doorway.They then re-appear a little later. In the last frame, before she disappears, she appears upright and steady on her feet. SO, IF she fell (and I can't say that she didn't), then she must have fallen, then got up and then moved out of the picture to the right with the returning CM - all in 33 seconds. I'd say that was unlikely, if she was "extremely drunk"

Did you notice the inner door to to the hotel lobby in the left of the picture? In the frame timed 04:08.48, as the complainant was getting out of the taxi, it begins to open. Then in frame 04:09.33, it begins to close. In other words, that door began to open 12 seconds before the complainant disappeared and remained open for the whole of the missing 33 seconds before starting to close again.

Do you know what I think?

I wonder, if just as the complainant and CM arrived at the hotel in the taxi, SOMEBODY walked through that door out of the hotel. If they did, then they must walked right past the complainant and would have had a very good view of her, and her behavior. In other words, that somebody would have been a perfect witness as to her state of intoxication, as she arrived at the hotel.

Now if that witness could testify that she was indeed extremely drunk, then you would think it would have been very much in the interests of the prosecution, to track them down and produce that witness in court.

On the other hand, if that witness could testify that the complainant did not appear that drunk, then it would very much have helped the defense!

As far as I can see no such witness was produced and so at the hotel we only have the testimony of the hotel porter, against the testimonies of CM and CE

So did the video clip, as produced in court include the missing 33 seconds? Did it show somebody walk out of the hotel as the complainant and CM arrived? If it did, then did anybody ask who it was and if there had been any attempt made to trace them?

And if the video as shown in court did not include the missing 33 seconds, then why were those seconds cut out?

AnyFucker · 22/01/2015 18:08

Fatbloke, have you ever considered taking up a hobby

Idle hands etc

HouseWhereNobodyLives · 22/01/2015 18:08

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venusinscorpio · 22/01/2015 18:08

Glad you're having so much fun with your amateur sleuthing, Fatbloke.

YonicScrewdriver · 22/01/2015 18:14

Yes, it is extremely likely that CM was a total gent and ran after the cab for her - surely he'd've mentioned this in his police statement and in court as a point in favour of his character, have your researches brought that up?

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 22/01/2015 18:14

They already had 2 perfectly good eyewitnesses who interacted with the victim, and testified in court that she was extremely drunk, blank eyed, staggering and her clothing was dishevelled.

I think you're clutching at straws.

YonicScrewdriver · 22/01/2015 18:15

Whittling is a fine hobby, I've heard.

AnyFucker · 22/01/2015 18:17

[[http://www.artofmanliness.com/2011/12/12/a-beginners-guide-to-whittling/ The Art of Manliness: A Guide to Whittling

There you go, Fattie, research that

AnyFucker · 22/01/2015 18:18

www.artofmanliness.com/2011/12/12/a-beginners-guide-to-whittling/

and I shall endeavour to improve my skills in linking websites

YonicScrewdriver · 22/01/2015 18:18

But no, Sabrina! The testimony of an imaginary person leaving the hotel at 4am and passing the victim for less than 30 seconds in poor light must be more important than the receptionist who saw her in the light and who exists!

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 22/01/2015 18:35

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SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 22/01/2015 18:37

Of course Yonic!

Perhaps CE should sack his lawyers and employ fatboke instead?

YonicScrewdriver · 22/01/2015 18:45

I think Fatbloke is suggesting that the police edited the tape, or perhaps the prosecution, but the police didn't notice, nor did the defence.

Or perhaps that the footage showed a potential imaginary witness but the police thought "nah, can't be arsed following that up"

Fatbloke1 · 22/01/2015 18:46

"Yes, it is extremely likely that CM was a total gent and ran after the cab for her - surely he'd've mentioned this in his police statement and in court as a point in favour of his character, have your researches brought that up?"

Err yes....

The Daily Post reported CM's testimony on 17th April 2012, saying;

"At the hotel the woman found she had lost her handbag and McDonald said he had run after the taxi to search for it.
It was not found and they both went into the hotel and to a £92 room which Evans had booked for McDonald earlier in the evening."

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 22/01/2015 18:47

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