Feminist Pub VII - Chat, questions, random thoughts too small for a thread ...

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Just setting this up while we finish off the last few posts on the old thread. Come in and pull up a bar stool!

[ReallyFuckingFedUp]

Yeah it was definitely the cake in my experience

No, capt I always did too. A friend of mine sees other people's babies and says she feels the urge to bf them. She's managed to control herself so far


When did it become 7 a day, just noticed recently people have been saying that on MN? We are veggy so it is easy for us, not sure how other people fit it in

[ReallyFuckingFedUp]

I couldn't give blood in america. Because I had lived in the UK, they don't want your dodgy blood

[StormyBrid]

rosa, I thought I'd put the insomnia to good use by starting a thread about drunken consent. Suffice to say, it didn't help me sleep! It has helped me marshal my thoughts a lot though. I do love FWR.

Seven a day came in a couple of weeks ago, I think. It's doable if you give up on the idea of eating anything that isn't a plant. So I'm buggered, because I had frankfurters for breakfast. Although they are made from animals which are fed on plants, so really just... ultra processed vegetables?

[TessOfTheFurbyvilles]

@Really - I was always a regular blood donor (around pregnancies) back there in the UK, I hate the fact I can't give blood now we've moved to the States. When I contacted the Red Cross, I was told the policy is frequently reviewed, and that they're hopeful things might changed within the next few years. I certainly hope so.

However, my upset about not being able to give blood here (which I couldn't do right now anyway, as I'm pregnant), has been balanced out somewhat by the fact I've finally found a feminist group to join here in Pittsburgh. I'm hoping I can now go on to make some friends who are more on my wavelength!

[Dragonlette]

I rarely get 7-a-day, if I'm lucky I manage the 5-a-day that I used to need. I gained 3 stone with both pregnancies, then half-heartedly tried to lose it a number of times, and put it on again, then lost some of it, then put it all back on. I'm currently 3 stone overweight and I'm attempting to make peace with it rather than beating myself up about it.

I'm reading "Fat is a feminist issue" after it was recommended on the women and space thread, and it's making a LOT of sense. She talks about the many, many reasons why women use being fat as a barrier between themselves and the world/their feelings. I've only read the introduction and the first chapter so far, and while there are certainly parts of it that are very dated and speak more to my mother's generation than to me, it is resonating with me in a way I've never found any weight loss plan to do. I'll report back once I've finished it, but it's made a good start, it's almost like having therapy (which I think I would benefit from but don't think I can justify the expense and I wouldn't get it on the nhs)

YY to missing bf, I really miss that closeness to a baby. I bf dd2 until she was 2.5 and she self-weaned, I was rather upset because even though I thought she was ready to stop I had expected a few more weeks before she stopped completely. I'm quite sad that I'll never get to do that again. I'm hoping I'll have grandchildren one day but I'll never get to bf them - that would be overstepping the mark MASSIVELY wouldn't it?

Stormy I read the start of your drunken consent thread before I went to bed, it seemed really interesting and I'll be catching up with it again today, maybe I'll even post on it.

Tess I'm very jealous of a feminist group. There don't seem to be any near me, the closest one I've found is over an hour away, or there's a student feminist group at the university but I'm not a student.

[UptoapointLordCopper]

at dodgy blood. As well as being underweight when I first tried to give blood, they took issue with me looking foreign:

Nurse (suspiciously, with good reasons): Have you travelled recently?

Me (crossly, with no good reason ): HTF do you think I got here!?

All in all not a happy experience for all involved.

I don't miss bfing. I don't feel that I miss the physical things. Is that odd? I feel quite close to them intellectually, having taught them my language since they were babies (and you get into trouble in the bilingual threads if you start admitting how and when you taught them. People have opinions. ).

[CaptChaos]

Brits can't give blood in Germany either. No one wants our blood at all

With reference to bilingualism, surely the advice is to speak to babies in whatever language as babies learn language in a different way to children and adults. All my German and Dutch friends did that while their husbands spoke English and none if their children were confused or exploded or anything. Is this not the received wisdom? Wouldn't it be a bit weird to suddenly at say, age 3, start introducing a new language?

[UptoapointLordCopper]

CaptChaos Ah but in what accents? You don't want them growing up speaking with the wrong accents! How cruel. And how do you teach them to read? When? What do you mean flashcards? What's wrong with you? etc etc. I keep my head down and my methods secret. But I'm proud to say I speak 3 languages, none of them with the correct accent.

[UptoapointLordCopper]

I hope I'm not offending any bilingual thread regulars here. >

[CailinDana]

Thanks guys.

I'm curious to hear about that book Dragon.

I have never had much problem with my weight, but it does rile me up massively when MIL, every six months or so, comments "Oh you've lost weight," in a sort of congratulatory tone. I know she means it as a compliment, but all it says to me is that she's taking note of how fat I look and is monitoring it. When she mentions it, I don't say thank you I just say "Oh have I?" and end the conversation. I do not want daughter hearing any of that shit and I do not want her growing up feeling like nanna is noticing her weight all the time. None of the men ever attract weight comments.

I also find it hard to know how to deal with endless weight-based conversations when I'm among female friends. I have no interest in them whatsoever, but feel I have to join in to be polite. I am torn - on the one hand, I feel that it is something that is important to them and so as a good friend I should show interest but on the other hand I hate upholding the idea that weight is something to be endlessly fretted about. I want to get across the idea that I think all my friends look great (which I do) without dismissing their concerns, which are legitimate, even if they are informed by a misogynistic idea of what women should be.

I don't get anywhere near 5 a day, never mind 7 . If only it were all measured in caffeine-based drinks, then I'd been a champion.

[StormyBrid]

Please do post on it, Dragon, the more people do, the more I'm able to get my thoughts in order.

Coincidentally, someone on my postnatal group mentioned teaching her son two languages not half an hour ago. I thought you just talk in both languages (or one parent in one, the other in the other) and they pick it up eventually. I'm a bit confused now. Are there other ways of doing it?

I've ordered that book too, but I'm still waiting for it to arrive. From what was mentioned on the women and space thread about it I suspect a lot will resonate with me too.

Cailin if they're good friends, I'd be inclined to, at some point when they're not in the middle of a discussion about weight, bring up the fact you're torn on the matter. Depends entirely on your friends whether that would be well received and the starting point for an interesting chat or not though!

Real coffee or instant? Real coffee is made from beans. Beans are plants. Coffee is therefore one of your five seven a day. It is possible this logic may have had a slight impact on my own weight issues...

[UptoapointLordCopper]

There are also differing opinions on what it means to actually know a language, or to be fluent. And then it becomes a bit more complicated when the dc go to school if school is in a different language. And then you have to keep up with the vocab in all the languages. And then you get little friends coming round to play - what language should you speak to your children then? Some people can have rather strong opinions on this. Life becomes complicated.

I do 1 for breakfast,1 for elevenses, 2 for lunch,2for dinner, and 1 as juice. That’s 7 a day. On a good day. :)

[ReallyFuckingFedUp]

that would be overstepping the mark MASSIVELY wouldn't it?

Can you imagine the AIBU thread if MIL tried to bf!?

I am especially pissed about not giving blood as it's to do with Mad Cow disease and I am a vegetarian!

Kids can learn as many languages as they want to. I've dealt with loads of multilingual families, with children actually growing up trilingual. I am so jealous I am not in a position to teach my children another language. I read you develop a whole new section of brain every time you learn another language. I just think that's amazing.

#brainnsareawesome

[CailinDana]

Stormy you are a genius. Truly. I shall now have 15 espressos and explode be super healthy!!

I do try to subtly get across the idea that I don't think my friends are fat but I am aware of what a confidence issue it is for them and I'm conscious of not giving the message that they need to shut about it around me, as I don't think that does any good.

I hate how hard it is to broach these things. Which is of course one of the big issues feminism faces.

[StormyBrid]

I suspect issues of what language to speak cropped up infrequently for my trilingual cousins. They live in another European country, so no problems with that one, they had plenty of exposure to their father's language because various of his family lived nearby, and the English they learnt from their mother was built upon a school. Rather a different kettle of fish in England, because there's not going to be that reinforcement at school.

[UptoapointLordCopper]

If you have a minority language with no support it becomes quite hard and certainly I've been having to put a lot of effort into it. It's not effortless for the children either. At many points they've had to decide whether to learn a new word in the minority language - you have to provide motivation. It is simply easier to just go with the community language but it takes effort and motivation to persevere.

Not a feminist issue though. Is it?

[StormyBrid]

Oh, and today I discovered one way to broach a topic is to leave a webpage with a provocative title open. The look on DP's face as he tried to work out what ^Shrödinger's rapist" could possibly mean entertained me greatly, and discussion followed naturally from there.

[CailinDana]

Interesting Stormy.

I've tried a chip, chip, chip approach with DH and it's working but incredibly slowly. A couple of weeks ago he came home all excited to tell me about the Bechdel test! I was irrationally overjoyed.

[CailinDana]

I can't do the webpage one though because DH is very conscious of giving me privacy on the internet (as I post here a lot) and so shuts down anything I leave open without reading it.

[ReallyFuckingFedUp]

You probably already know all this Lordcopper, but what I do is I have paid for a VPN so I can watch TV in other countries online. Also what I do is I go on Youtube and set up playlists of TV in German for the kids to watch. (once you have searched for a particular show you can filter your search results to over 20 minutes, so you only get full programs).

I then use the Chromecast (they are like £30) to let the kids watch it on TV.

[CailinDana]

Oh blagh I feel rather rubbish today.

I feel I have every right to talk about rape/assault etc and that I should not hide this from friends. But it always leave me feeling, wrung out, I suppose. And at a loss.

[CailinDana]

I feel an urge to talk more to my friend about it, but unsure of the protocol I suppose, it's such a taboo subject. A large chunk of my problem with having been raped is the feeling of never being able to talk about it. I am aware of that, and yet also aware that talking about it isn't a problem-free endeavour.

[StormyBrid]

Cailin, it sort of feels like something important is missing from interactions with people, I think. Because it's the sort of experience that can profoundly effect how you see yourself and the world. If no one knows what you've been through, it's hard for them to, I dunno, figure you out? Work out where you're coming from? Probably not expressing myself well there at all.

[CailinDana]

No, that's exactly it Stormy. I mean, if I'd been in a really bad car accident that left me with some injury that still affected me, it would be perfectly normal for my close friends to know about it. I'd talk about it, they'd sympathise, and they'd take into account the injury when it was relevant. However, with something like rape, which is of the same magnitude IMO and has similar long-lasting effects, it is a secret. And a shameful one at that. And I don't want to it to be. It happened to me, it makes me angry but I don't want to be treated differently due to it. I would just like to be able to share it with my friends so they know my history.

[CailinDana]

At the same time, talking about it makes me feel incredibly vulnerable. I know if I said outright to my friend that I was raped and his reaction was...dismissive, or something, I would find that quite wounding. So I am aware that it's not simply a case of just saying it. I also feel like I would be burdening this friend in a way, putting something on him that he doesn't need to know about, which I suppose is a bit silly?