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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminist Pub VII - Chat, questions, random thoughts too small for a thread ...

999 replies

LRDtheFeministDragon · 29/05/2014 18:37

Just setting this up while we finish off the last few posts on the old thread. Come in and pull up a bar stool!

Smile
OP posts:
UptoapointLordCopper · 19/06/2014 20:53

Continuation of Very Dull Rant #1: on the other hand, women-only spaces allowing women to share experience without any representative of patriarchy telling them how they are doing it wrong are welcome and necessary. That's the difference between women-only spaces and women-in-leadership type things. Is it not? (Sorry if it all sounds very elementary. Trying to get it clear in my head.)

UptoapointLordCopper · 19/06/2014 20:54

CaptChaos - I would sack that mentor. ;)

LRDtheFeministDragon · 19/06/2014 20:56

That's perfectly clear.

Women-only spaces are providing peer support, and also letting women feel free to develop their sense of themselves as authoritative etc.

The other thing is closer to 'hmm, someone should teach us how not to be misogynistic but it is so hard! I know, let's get the women to spend time on it!'

OP posts:
UptoapointLordCopper · 19/06/2014 21:03

So why are women rubbish at chess then?

Same reasons women are no good at maths? Only about 7% of maths professors in the uk are women.

Dragonlette · 19/06/2014 22:43

Dd1 is the only girl who plays chess in her school. She's not quite the best chess player, but she's second best and she's only in year 9 (most of the others are sixth form). She plays in all the competitions she can that are close to us, but from the age of 8 she has been put into the girls competition rather than the "mixed" competition (which seems to be exclusively boys). It would have taken an extremely confident 8yo to question this decision and demand to play in the "mixed" competition.

It's interesting that only 7% of maths professors are women, especially considering that over half of maths graduates are women. I have a maths degree and all of my maths lectures were pretty evenly split, with usually slightly more women. It was a sharp contrast with my Computing lectures where I was one of 3 women in a lecture theatre containing 250 men.

kim147 · 19/06/2014 22:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AnnieLobeseder · 19/06/2014 23:03

Oh dear. A man has broken the reverse sexism thread. Sad

BillnTedsMostFeministAdventure · 19/06/2014 23:04

That's not a man, it's a very silly boy.

AnnieLobeseder · 19/06/2014 23:08

But it was such a lovely thread, and he has wandered in, swinging his willy about the place and pissed all over it. I realise its insignificance in the grand scheme of things, but it has made me very sad. Why can't we have nice things?

BillnTedsMostFeministAdventure · 19/06/2014 23:11

I know, and all of the posts were really "factual", just "what if there was a Netball World Cup?" Not "those testerical men are denying us a netball World Cup" etc etc.

Wine?

AnnieLobeseder · 19/06/2014 23:16

Why isn't there a [bed]?

BillnTedsMostFeministAdventure · 19/06/2014 23:17

Is The Jolly Greer a Pub With Rooms?

I think it should be!

BillnTedsMostFeministAdventure · 19/06/2014 23:21

He's going to bed now, apparently. Shall we wait ten minutes and love bomb the thread?

AnnieLobeseder · 19/06/2014 23:24

Love bombing the thread is a most lovely idea, but I feel ill (unrelated) and have just dragged myself from slumber on the sofa to "one last check of 'tinterwebz before bed" and really need to put the computer down and head off myself. 5:30am start tomorrow, groan.

BillnTedsMostFeministAdventure · 19/06/2014 23:27

Ah, sleep well!

AnnieLobeseder · 19/06/2014 23:32

Thanks Buffy. I have just spent a minute or two looking for something uplifting to post on the other thread before retiring, but Googling "feminism", for the record, is a Bad Idea. Even more sad now. Sleep is good.

AnnieLobeseder · 19/06/2014 23:34

Sorry! BillnTed, not Buffy. How rude of me! Blush

BillnTedsMostFeministAdventure · 19/06/2014 23:36

That's ok!

BillnTedsMostFeministAdventure · 19/06/2014 23:52
BillnTedsMostFeministAdventure · 19/06/2014 23:53

I think imaginary hotel design may be my new hobby!

DoctorTwo · 20/06/2014 07:44
DoctorTwo · 20/06/2014 08:16

Holy Jeff, he really doesn't get it, does he?

StormyBrid · 20/06/2014 08:43

Did he even read the thread title, d'you think?

AnnieLobeseder · 20/06/2014 08:59

I posted this on the reverse sexism thread after BillnTed made the Most Excellent Suggestion that we do a little lovebombing. But my original intention was to post it here as it highlights in excellent satirical style how men overestimate their strength (and women, I believe, underestimate theirs in the same way).

Average Male 4,000% Less Effective In Fights Than They Imagine

allhailqueenmab · 20/06/2014 09:52

Lord Copper, LRD, I think you are absolutely write in the distinction between female-orientated peer support and training aimed at getting those poor little ladies up to scratch.... then we will be able to promote them.

I have mixed feelings about the notion of training. i have had almost no formal training that i have not paid for myself. Every time (countable on fewer than fingers of one hand) that anything at all has been offered to me at work, on their time and their dollar, I have absolutely bit their hands off, both as an opportunity to develop myself, and in insane gratitude at the message that seems to be expressed that I am in some way worthy of being invested in.
Part of my dribbling craven enthusiasm for this comes from a history of seeing highly problematic senior people, usually men, causing huge problems to the teams they are attempting to manage because of their aggression, emotional immaturity and general ego-driven crapness, and where these problems are recognised at all (never through direct complaints from staff, which always reflect badly on the complainant) the solution is to parcel the manager off for some lovely expensive and interesting training, which he always moans about having to attend and I am fiendishly jealous of, because nobody gives a shit about my development and I never cause any problems and very very very nearly NEVER get any training.

so there is a part of me that sees this "women in management" thing as a corrective to this usual thing of "squeaky wheel getting the oil". the scenario I outlined above is similar to in schools, where boys get a lot of attention, partly by causing problems but also by being aggressive about it when they are being bright - so the solution by teachers is seen as to nurture the bright behaviour as positive reinforcement that can act indirectly on managing the negative behaviour at the same time - meanwhile similarly bright and less problematic girls are relatively ignored. So one, slightly more positive, way of of looking at this, would be as saying "here is the lesson where we give all those girls the interesting teaching they deserve without having to manage the boys' egos at the same time".

I guess that is a bit Pollyanna. and the points above are very good.

but i guess this comes from a place of many occasions where I have wished "why are they investing in the guy that is causing the problem, where the situation is that his crap management has left his team with low morale, poor self esteem, no mentoring or coaching or motivation or objectives or personal development; and why can't they all be taken away for some training to make up for all the incredibly draining months or years of struggling to do the best job they can under a crap boss?"