Not all men

[AskBasil]

Interesting article here

Thank you for saying that. I appreciate it.

I think men shouldn't stay out of feminist activism. But their activity should be directed toward the other men working in conscious and unconscious ways to defend their privilege. You could for example write to the FA about Richard Scudamore and you'd be hard pressed to find a feminist or anyone who would object to that.

Where men are not welcome is in telling feminists how they should speak to other men, because that is nothing like feminist action and a bit more like, keeping the women in line. Object to sexism and sexist views - yes! TO THE PEOPLE PROMOTING THEM.

In fact, I'm significantly enraged by the fact that more men don't do this. The mass oppression of people in our society on the basis of their birthright is something we should all be working against. But telling those whom you are supposedly trying to empower why their own activities are causing them to remain oppressed is oppression apology. And is disempowering, which thereby reaffirms rather than alleviates their position of powerlessness.

Sorry, just to be clear, that was specifically to King

I agree with not telling people what to do. I don't think women should tell men how to handle femininism either. I do agree that understanding needs to be increased on both sides. I, personally, don't mind expressing an opinion for a debate on here. I wouldn't 'tell' people what do.

I think it's understandable that not many men get vocally involved (I do with friends by the way).

Mail readers troll the comments. That's my belief

Sorry, Buffy, I thought you meant 'telling' people how to feel, how to act, how to respond, etc.
'Tell', as in discussion is important. Sharing experiences.
Otherwise men won't learn. Also it's important the other way because you won't know what a man feels and how these feelings are hindering male feminist involvement.

Feminism by definition has to be driven with women in a leadership position. You as a male cannot liberate without creating a mirror situation of what needs to be dismantled. Oppression has two key fronts one is externally where you fight the tyrants and oppressors the second and perhaps most crucial front is in the psyches of the oppressed group, and that I am afraid you cannot alter, no matter how well meaning you are.

You can however try and level the playing field and be part of an environment that makes all this easier and not harder. Sometimes you just need to listen and be told what helps and what doesn't.

I'm with Red, this place is consciousness raising for me. And my students ha ha, I'm totally going to write a lecture on female violence at some point.

Martorana - "I have asked you to tell me what to say so that men will understand."

I have to go out and this thread may well be at 1000 by the time I get back so a very quick answer.

You have to talk to the NOMALT group in a different way to the people who are the main object of your ire. The NOMALT group have to feel like they are allies not enemies. It tone that matters. Ask them for help. Ask for specific help with specific actions. If you ask for help a lot of people feel positive and want to reply yes. If you attack someone first they are unlikely to feel positive. You lost their cooperation before you even got started.

Yes Buffy kind of that. No one should tell someone how to feel. Expressing your opinions on what makes a good ally is good. Of course your ideas may differ to another feminist's.

Do you think that a man expressing his ideas on feminist issue and what he would do, is fine to do on a FWR thread discussion.

MWNN- what would you suggest that I wear while I'm asking men for help?

Shall I mix him a martini before or after I ask?