Disney's 'Frozen'

[allalongthewatchtower]

Just musing as I watched Frozen with the DDs at the weekend.

I have to say, I was impressed with the transition Disney have mad from weak, simpering princesses who need a man to 'fix' their lives to strong, independent female characters.

I noticed it passed the Bechdel Test with flying colours. Also, although there was the all-enduring Princess theme, at least the Princesses in this theme were Princesses by default, and not transformed by the addition of a handsome prince.

Full marks for the act of true love being about the bond between sisters. And yes, I know Anna ends up falling in love, but at least it's a genuine love - I liked the way they made a mockery of the love at first sight thing.

I was cheered to see something as mainstream as Disney has changed the way it presents it's female characters so significantly.

Am I overly awed by it, though? Did I miss something? What did you all think?

Not seen frozen but was thinking this sort of thing the other day.
I think children's tv in general is getting better, but I think Disney cartoons are among the worst. Or is it just the old fashioned ones? Mickey Mouse clubhouse is awful - high heels and pearls. Doc McStuffins is good.
We watch a lot of Scooby doo which I like. Velma is the clever, sensible one. Daphne is a bit self obsessed but is the brave/sporty one. She may wear a dress and high heels but it never seems to stop her doing daring things.
Would be interesting to hear others' opinions.

Even Sofia the first which I originally hated because of the focus on hair and dress - yesterday's episode seemed to be about her making friends with a load of trolls and dancing while whacking a club on the ground.

I thought the same as you - a refreshing change.

Also liked how the princess made the prince stay at home while she went off on the quest.

Small waist, big doe eyes kind of did it for me.... It's the physical stereotype that still drives me nuts. I have 4dds and they do have a princess complex. What happens when they realise they aren't as pretty, their hair is not as long etc etc....

Oh and the other thing - I took ds and 8 of his male friends to see it for his 9th birthday and they were all transfixed and thought it was "awesome" - you couldn't force them to go and see one of the traditional princess ones. So good marketing on Disney's part - managing to make it appealing to both genders.

imip - good point about the physical side of it. I guess they moved away from that a bit with Brave? Not seen Brave, but I know what she looks like. They obviously decided not to go in that direction with Frozen.

SPB - my DDs lovely scooby, Doc McStuffins and Sofia, though I have to confess I've never really sat and watched any of them (DH does though) so I can't really comment.

MM Clubhouse seems very retro.

Yes retro, definitely!
When I took DD to buy a dressing up outfit recently she said she wanted to be merida because she rode horses and shot arrows, not just sitting around looking pretty. I felt a bit :( as she's just parroting he words that have come out of my mouth

Actually I' like to amend my previous post
Doc McS is awful, "time for yoir checkup"
But good from a feminist perspective IMO

Elsa only becomes "sexy" (hair, eyes, dress in particular) when she breaks free of the patriarchal system that has contained her until that point.

It's a small step in the right direction but still massively flawed.

Disney still shoved in the traditional male-female love story. The film didn't need it at all.

Anna is portrayed as coming to her senses about how silly and rash her falling for Prince Hans is yet goes on to fall in love with someone else she doesn't know in a very short time.

The two female characters still have the Disney blow up sex doll aesthetic - all huge eyes, tiny waists and boobs.

And how 'strong' are the female characters anyway? Anna is needy and clumsy and rude. Elsa is hugely fucked up because of her parent's shitty decisions and instead of dealing with her issues exiles herself to an ice palace.

The only genuinely progressive thing I saw in the film was the male shop owners male partner and their family.

I liked that Elsa didnt fall in love with a man, but that sje discovered that her love for her sister was enough to control her powers.

A great movie all round.

"The two female characters still have the Disney blow up sex doll aesthetic - all huge eyes, tiny waists and boobs. "

Tahts what puts me off sofia the first I have to say. Doc McS is sensibly dressed and looks like a normal toddler (if a bit synthetic looking :o)

Of course Anna is needy, she's been orphaned and her sister won't speak to her. I thought she was human. Being human and having flaws doesn't equal not strong.

As for Elsa, you can have been fucked up by parenting but still come out the other side.

What does a strong character look like to you, eyeliner? Someone with no baggage, by the sound of it. What's wrong with them being human?

See, the waist is too tiny, unhealthy... Really unhealthy.

I'm trying to see this through the eyes of a child. Actually one of my children, who are not petite sized...

It seems just a reinforcement of some stereotypical beauty. I know of a 7 yo with an eating disorder, this sort of thing just perpetuates the emphasis on slim. I'm not saying they shouldn't be slim, but that seems unhealthy. And a head that big, her nimble body probably couldn't hold it....

This is true imip.

I wonder what the male characters in the film - Hans and Kristoff represent for boys. They're quite square-jawed and handsome, broad etc.

I thought they at least attempted to make Anna look non-typical for a princess, by including freckles at least. But totally agree on their figures.

I agree with the comments here.
I think the film has a very good message for young girls: Don't trust and get too involved with Prince Charming too soon.
But then they made sure that Anna got together with another guy she met very recently before the film ended...
I think the characters were cute but the extreme daintiness of Anna and Elsa bothered me. Kristoff was much bigger but still cute - would it be too scary for sexists if a story about 2 sisters allowed their sizes to be a bit more normal? Would they take up too much space both in story and looks? Would it be too scary for sexists to have a story about the relationship between 2 sisters and none of them end up with a man during the film?

suprised to see this thread as i though the cartoon design of the characters was really awful, like bratz dolls.

disney of the \link{http://kikizo.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/snowwhite-blu-review-still2.jpg\past} and \link{http://nicktiffany.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Frozen-Posters-disney-princess-33492614-1080-1600.jpg\present} what's with the freaky massive eyes

urgh to disney all round

I worry about the thinness of Anna and Elsa not just from my dds perspective though, but also for young boys. They 'expect' it to be a realistic image of young girls/women. Yes, the male roles also hugely stereotypical and I feel the same about that.

I can't see past their thinness to think of the storyline as empowering, however. I find the whole 'princess' thing far too much to take. I did, however, have Frozen on preorder (promised it to dd1 who was screaming during a blood test). It's a tough job to tell girls, no, everyone isn't a princess etc etc....

The huge eyes are slightly disturbing. I was asking myself just why did they make this design choice - the female characters have round heads with very large eyes, why? Because it's cuter, and it's cute because it's childlike. The girls must be much smaller and more childlike than the guys.

I think Disney is very clever at making their princess stories just feminist appearing enough for most people. When Beauty and the Beast came out then there was lots about how here was a new feminist Disney princess. But none of them are really, there's a bit of variation and 'fiestiness' allowed but they still have to fall in love with the prince at the end and they still have to be tiny waisted and doe eyed. For feminist friendly characters in Disney the other cartoons are better. Lilo and Stitch is my favourite but Wreck It Ralph has two fab lead female characters.

Love the songs in Frozen though and have recommended Grandma gives it to the kids for Easter (she's looking after them next week and they like to have a movie day where they eat junk food in front of the TV).

Y'all know Studio Ghibli is the place to go for decent female characters?

I don't get the appeal, I've tried to sit through it twice and just found it really jumpy and odd. The entire story hinges on the trolls finding it great to scare a small child whose powers become dangerous with fear when they know - and refuse to tell her or the parents - that they can be handled better by love. Why the trolls wanted to be so cruel no one knows and they continue to be horrid later by trying to play matchmaker without Anna's feelings being considered.

In terms of feminism:

The women are identical - Elsa and the mum are palette swaps, the faces are all the same (and have very little difference from Rapunzel). The artists themselves discussed how hard it was to make women emotional and still pretty - even though there are decades of wonderfully emotional women within animated media.

Genuine love? She knows guy number 2 only a few more hours than she knew guy number 1. While some of the older ones may be called simpering, many of them knew their princes for more than a day and are far more active than what seems to be to be blundering along by chance more than anything.

And the most frustrating for me, Snow Queen is one of the very very few Anderson fairy tales where the girl isn't punished for being a girl, is mainly helped by other women, and ends well for her. In Frozen's very loose adaptation, all the other girls and women are cut out and the rest of the cast is turned male and all of them are whitewashed (Anderson in one of his very rare mentions, does mention that Gerta (Anna), Kaye, and the Robber girl have brown skin as likely does the Laplander/Saami woman who was entirely cut other than really bad adaptation of cultural clothes). It's very confusing why so many great women characters were cut out and why they would adapt it as they did. Early story boards showed a lot of potential but for me it fell really flat.

The only positive representation wise for me is the open representation of anxiety and mental health issues, spoken of by the director. It's not appealing to me (and I prefer the sisters in Lilo and Stitch), but I know others find that connection quite powerful.

Frozen was based on the Hans Christian Andersen story 'The Ice Queen' which not only passes your bechdel test- it shits them out copiously!

In the Ice Queen they smash the ugly/evil witch trope. It's a chap called Hans that needs saving by the courageous heroine (Gerta I think her name was.)

It's a great story, I loved it as a child.

Frozen is ok though. If the princess trope is moving onto being a bit more empowered and less flimsy then I am fine with that.

I don't see the problem with Disney princesses being beautiful and needing a prince to save them. They're based on much older tales and representing that. I think it's a problem when people can't appreciate the history of stories and where the characters come from. I wrote a huge post about Disney and women a while ago, don't know where it is but my stance would be the same. I worried more about Hannah Montana and the constant weight/sex orientated chat... And look at that 'role model' now. In fact I really dislike American TV series for children, I don't see Disney with happy endings, kindness and live as a problem. Boys are not going to grow up expecting women to look like aurora from sleeping beauty as a whole, neither are girls going to grow up believing they should be a mermaid, from the little mermaid or look exactly the same as her. Children are influenced by what they see but not to that extent, really.

*love not live