Disney's 'Frozen'

[allalongthewatchtower]

Just musing as I watched Frozen with the DDs at the weekend.

I have to say, I was impressed with the transition Disney have mad from weak, simpering princesses who need a man to 'fix' their lives to strong, independent female characters.

I noticed it passed the Bechdel Test with flying colours. Also, although there was the all-enduring Princess theme, at least the Princesses in this theme were Princesses by default, and not transformed by the addition of a handsome prince.

Full marks for the act of true love being about the bond between sisters. And yes, I know Anna ends up falling in love, but at least it's a genuine love - I liked the way they made a mockery of the love at first sight thing.

I was cheered to see something as mainstream as Disney has changed the way it presents it's female characters so significantly.

Am I overly awed by it, though? Did I miss something? What did you all think?

The history of The Snow Queen was pretty much ignored completely to make Frozen, though it is not the worst destruction of a story by far (that goes to their 'historical' stories turned into gross fairy tales). In fact most of the Disney fairy tales are very reduced versions of their originals.

spork that's actually most of it for me. Disney have forever in children's mind 'changed' stories. I'm not aware of the story behind Frozen, my parents didnt encourage reading as a child, so I feel a bit behind in the type of stories I should be encouraging my dcs to read. I was trying to explain that Tinkerbell came from Peter Pan, and they refused to accept it!

Also, I recall Walt Disney himself branding people as communists during the McCarthy period in the US and he was an anti-Semite. Kind of sours the Franchise for me, but obviously has no impact on anything Frozen-related.

I agree imip - Disney has become the main version of stories, even of history. I have had people go on about how they hate the real historical Pocahontas story because they love the Disney version and John Smith so much (the fact that he was a drunk and she vocally spoke against him and his story in public, and that Disney repeatedly ignored and refused help from the Powhatan nation seems to be neither here or there for them). People use media as a reference, the fact the reference is distorted distorts how people view the story, the history, the people and places. It's all part of the system. See how Euro-like areas are all-white in pretty much media, particularly kids' movies, even when we know that it has never been that way - it perpetuates a mythos to perpetuate a system of division. It's why media from as outside the main systems is so important.

At the end of the day, they're still princesses!

And Anna is only changed by a handsome ice seller, i.e. changes herself for a man. Hmmph.

It's fine as a fairy story, but it doesn't get away from that basic stereotype that princesses are beautiful, and girls should model themselves on them. Oh, yes, you can be creative, so long as you're making pwetty ice palaces or painting murals or you can be courageous by leaving your tower at the behest of a man, or searching for your sister to correct your huge error (again at the behest of a man, the weaseltown chappy), you can't just do things, and be ordinary because that's not what girls should be, is it?

I didn't think Frozen was anything like The Snow Queen tbh.

The trolls were cute though

Oh, but I thought the ice seller chap was nice, a decent type, who had a good heart, so he is a nice role model, at least.

I've never read an original version of the Snow Queen where the main chatacters were brown. The only mentions of Kay's skin is that it goes blue with cold. The Robber Girl is described as of dark complexion and she has been written out by Disney.

There is a problem with Disney globally that they only produce monocultural films. All the msin characters in European films white, all main characters brown in Indian ones. The only genuinely multicultural animation they seem to be able to produce is Lilo and Stitch.

Kay is certainly brown: "Gerda had to seek for little Kay. She pushed one of the red leaves aside, and saw a little brown neck. Oh, that must be Kay! She called his name out quite loud, and held the lamp over him." My kids always get excited at that part. The little robber girl is described as "taller than Gerda, but she was stronger and much broader in the shoulders. Her skin was brown and her eyes coal-black-almost sad in expression. " Gerda is less certain, her face is compared to a rose (which may be more about innocence than anything - he was big on that in girls), and with the references she could be read one way or the other (like Kaye or lighter), but there is nothing that says she's White and completely against the story to make the entire cast White or so male.

Disney does seem to focus mostly on monocultural stories, especially when characters are human. The issue socially is that they've become a trusted storyteller, even when the stories and history they pump out are skewed at best and damaging for most and alongside that issue is that Disney is buying up or sueing out most other production companies for children so the media produced for children is getting more and more of a narrow scope. We're getting only a narrow perspective during a time when things should be most broad and they're actively making harder to get it.

I think that is a bit complicated because we don't refer to any ethnic group as brown And so illustrators opt to depict him as white. You can be a white chatacter and be described as brown (every Enid Blytonchild character on holiday). I'd rather the illustrations and adaptations for these were updated to show a genuinely multicultural historical Europe, where some of the main characters are obviously ancestrally from other continents.

I'm interested to know why Disney only presents countries as monocultural apart from the US. I suppose however troubling the content - Pocahontas and the Princess and the Frog do have more than one culture in them, but they are in the US.

I'm certain that the two children in Snow Queen are white, however, one of the women who helps the main character is a Sami woman I think.

I would love a beautifully animated 2D version that's faithful to the original story. No Barbie designs. That would be a good film for girls (and boys).

The whole thing is difficult because we're trying to take a book written in another lamguage, translate it and then try and tie the descriptions to socially constructed ethnic groups now.

It should be possible for any character (perhaps apart from the one ethnically indigenous to Europe - the Sami character) to be illustrated or animated as being of a non-European appearance due to ancestry. There's nothing in the text to prevent that. Even the Snow Queen could be white on terms of a mask etc; she doesn't have to be ancestrally European.

And even of the story did contradict it, it is part of the nature of storytelling to change the culture and ethnicity to reflect the audience.

Elsa isn't a princess, she is a queen once her parents die, bit worrying that's getting overlooked here of all places.

I do like that it builds up to the "kiss of true love" being between Anna and Kristof, but it's actually between Elsa and Anna, I think it's and extremely good message, especially for girls, to not have Romantic love > all other love for once.

Also, as someone wrote elsewhere, Disney produce plenty of female centred action films, something you don't see very often in adult films.

It's interesting strength is mentioned, I do think we have a very skewed idea of what strength is, any flaws, feelings or weaknesses and someone isn't strong. I read a very interesting piece about Disney's The Little Mermaid and it argued that rather then lovestruck and foolish, Ariel was clever and brave, it was very intriguing.

But yes, I agree with Spork that the trolls were very mean to not point out how Elsa could control her magic.

I'm loving TheSpork's posts on this thread.

also good point from almondcake that we can do what we want with ethnicity - mostly - and yet - Disney won't.

I remember that story from being a child! And yet completely failed to connect it with Frozen until reminded about it here.

I am disturbed by the way Elsa's "let it go" moment is equated with sexuality. she is expressing herself in a way she has never allowed herself to before; and this is destructive, and powerful, and clearly a huge (evil) relief for her - and very sexy. I think this is not good. I am trying to parse this in an ok way, and failing. The power and the thrill of this song is a guilty pleasure when you that her luxurating in her power, in her real self, is freezing the world to death. it seems to reinforce the gloved, "be the good girl you always have to be" message as much as anything.

I totally blame the trolls, of course. It's something about sexual power being tamed and made good by being unified with love, and yet this message didn't get to Elsa - she just got "don't feel", like that was ever gong to work.

The trolls trying to push Anna and the ice guy (sorry can't remember his name) into a marriage is of a piece with this - the tradition of early marriage in societies who are scared of sex and tame women's sexuality by having them married off as soon as possible - all repressive conservative stuff.

I liked Frozen, I liked the way that the act of love was between two sisters and that neither of them ended up married, and that Elsa was queen and didn't feel the need to get married.

I understand what people are saying about the looks, but I think that it's really taken a big step forward in changing the story for the better and that the asthetic change will come in time.

Disney have shown themselves capable of making films were the female characters are not stick-thin and don't have eyes that fill the entire face, look at the sisters from Lilo and Stitch:
www.thehollywoodnews.com/wp-content/uploads/Stitch-lilo-and-stitch-4136196-1024-607.jpg
More like this please.

Thought this was interesting - how the whole plot was almost completely different

Thanks, MataHairy. That's really interesting!
It explains the unease many of us here have expressed with the trolls and their non-solution.
And the deep unease that I sensed with female power / sexuality - she was written first in a way that all that was unequivocally evil - and you can tell. It is a better film as it is - but you can sense the simplistic fear and misogyny in its conception - it is like a fascinating microcosm of feminist-driven partial evolution in the development path of one movie

Turning males into wimpering simpering etc! Where is the attraction in that? Most of the females I see on modern films are stroppy and humourless. Just another take n it.

Were there any wimpering simpering males in Frozen? I don't even think that's a good description of the reindeer.

The love story didn't need adding - did you WATCH the film or just 'critique' it?

Elsa criticises Ana for 'falling in love' so quick and refused blessing (fairly bloody central to everything else taking place.

Kristoph makes several comments ridiculing Ana when he first meets her regarding explicitly marrying someone she's just met.

Neither man is identified as the true love person. Her sister is.

That's pretty clear surely?

Wimpering simpering males?

Kristoff wimpers "But I just paid it off..." when his sled is destroyed.

But he's not, most of the time.

Kristoff is a strong independent man.

This is his theme song

He has got his own ride! His own deer! Two jobs, work hard, you're a bad boy!

any recommendations for 4 year old DD frozen and brave are too scary for her at the moment she likes cinderella tangled and madagasscar ( if i',m watching with her) but was wondering about other DVD's that are better she is a bit girly likes dresses not trousers but not into dolls more lego and art

Kiki's Delivery Service, the girl is a witch who starts her own delivery service. She wears a black dress and makes friends with an artist :)

I like Frozen, I can see what people mean about the visual design of the Queen and Princess not really breaking the mould but I love that the main storyline is about the relationship between the two sisters and the sending up of the 'marrying (or leaving control of your kingdom to) someone you just met'. It is a bit self-conscious about the whole true love thing by sign posting it, but it was a bit funny.

I liked that the character design of the villain wasn't stereotypical. I was suspicious of him when she left him in charge after being warned that she didn't know him, but was lulled into a false sense of security when he was kind and helpful to the people while she was away. A good reminder that abusive gits can present a warm front to others.

Its maybe not perfect, but I think its a step in the right direction. :)