Disney's 'Frozen'

[allalongthewatchtower]

Just musing as I watched Frozen with the DDs at the weekend.

I have to say, I was impressed with the transition Disney have mad from weak, simpering princesses who need a man to 'fix' their lives to strong, independent female characters.

I noticed it passed the Bechdel Test with flying colours. Also, although there was the all-enduring Princess theme, at least the Princesses in this theme were Princesses by default, and not transformed by the addition of a handsome prince.

Full marks for the act of true love being about the bond between sisters. And yes, I know Anna ends up falling in love, but at least it's a genuine love - I liked the way they made a mockery of the love at first sight thing.

I was cheered to see something as mainstream as Disney has changed the way it presents it's female characters so significantly.

Am I overly awed by it, though? Did I miss something? What did you all think?

Lilo and Stitch and Brave are better from a feminist perspective. I also like Tangled for the interesting relationship between Rapunzel and her 'mother' too though I know it has issues too.

It would be nice to get to the point that a storyline about two women isn't noteworthy though! Maybe a few female buddy movies!

TeacupDrama Some good recommendations, another vote for Kiki's Delivery Service (also Ponyo and My Neighbour Totoro from Studio Ghibli are great for LOs), Lilo and Stitch is also great for a 4 year old, my 4&6 year olds love it (so do I). They also like The Wild Thornberries (film of the TV cartoon), The Wizard of Oz, Mary Poppins, Charlotte's Web (the live action version which is so charming and true to the book), 101 Dalmations, Hookwinked, Despicable Me, The Rescuers. All of those pass the Bechdel Test to a greater or lesser extent and all are U rated so fine for a 4 year old. There are some scary bits in some of them for a LO (101 Dalmation and The Rescuers in particular).

We're in a sorry state when one of the best films for a variety of female characters is 80 years old (The Wizard of Oz). We seem to be getting worse at this instead of better...

I read an interesting thread on here that studio ghibli is only 'better' in a feminist sense when you watch them from a western viewpoint. That from a japanese viewpoint the women are fufiling more traditional roles of looking after everyone. It was explained better by soneone else but it did resonate with my own experience of japanese culture.

I think it is a step in the right direction, but only a step.

It was okay, but not as good as Tangled, which had a better plot and more interesting characters. none of the relationships in Frozen were well developed, and the plot was hopelessly muddled. Much of it made no sense at all. And it bears no resemblance whatsoever to The Snow Queen, on which it is allegedly based.

There haven't been any weak simpering princesses in Disney films for decades. and no disney film that I can think of, even the old ones, features a princess who 'just sits around being pretty.'

I have no idea what the Bechdel test is or that cartoons provoked such deep debate.what do you all think of Mulan? Dds loved that one when they were younger.

Bechdel Test. The reason cartoons inspire such debate is because they are what our children watch when young and where they learn important ideas about the culture they live in. There is some evidence that the more TV and film culture a child is exposed to the more gender-normative their behaviour is as an adult. So if you let you kid watch tons of TV they will learn that girls look after the home and children while boys go out and have adventures.

I've not seen Mulan but from reading feminist reviews like most recent Disney princess movies it's a mixed bag. It showed a woman of colour having an adventure (good) but isolates her from other women and she eventually got married as required by her family (not so good). Compare to Kiki's Delivery service: teenage witch leaves home and moves to a new city where she makes friends and finds out what her strengths are and overcomes adversity when required. It's a classic coming of age film that happens to be about a girl rather than a boy. Usually female 'coming of age' films are about sexual awakening. I have a real problem with the idea that films marketed at small girls always have to have a romance in them.

I think for a child old enough to properly understand Mulan it's a brilliant film. The protagonist does fall in love at the end, but to a man of her own choosing going against tradition after saving an entire country. And proving that women are as strong, intelligent and brave as men (or as in her case more so)

I tried watching it with dd who is 3 and realised it wasn't appropriate as she doesn't understand the context and men singing "that you're just a woman" or whatever some of the lyrics were would be taken at face value and not as wrong iyswim? If she were 8,9 10 I'd definitely have her watch it. I doubt it passes the bechdel test though as the majority of the film is her surrounded by men except for the beginning where she is with female family being prepped to find a husband.

The Bechdel test is also only a guide some awesome feminist films might not pass. And lesbian porn would pass. So, you know not perfect

LADYRAINICORN I've read that as well, however after seeing other Japanese children's films I disagree. I can see the point they are making but I do believe the creators are trying to make something empowering. The films all come off very unique to me in the way they spend so much time on the character's personalities and strength. They also all seem to learn an important lesson through out the films

Absolutely right on the Bechdel test Really, it's power is only in looking at a large number of films, e.g. the fact that Finding Nemo fails it doesn't bother me, that most Pixar films fail it really does bother me.

I loved it, I loved that the act of love was one of sacrificial love rather than a romantic one. I thought it was very funny and the songs are brilliant. I loved Olaf too! His song is hilarious.

Yes, the faces and figures are all of the 'air brushed variety', would rather not have that.

I have emailed Disney to tell them. You can too.

thewaltdisneycompany.com/contact-us