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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

privilege and prostitution

282 replies

ezinma · 26/03/2014 15:15

Appearing in my social media today is one of those sharp and sassy thoughts for the day that I’m invited to approve by sharing. Where better to share it than here:

So, you are against prostitution. But you're an attractive person with a boyfriend. Who I assume you have sex with. That gives you privilege. Some people aren't so lucky. The only way they can get laid is by paying for it. Why do you think you have the right to experience one of life's fundamental experiences and others don't?

It’s from tumblr so we ought to make some allowances. Let’s, if we may, overlook the fact that I am a middle-aged frump with a civil partner; the debatable contention that sex, in and of itself, is one of life’s fundamental experiences; the erasure of women who aren’t “lucky” enough to have a boyfriend and whose right to A Fundamental Experience presumably requires them to seduce a partner using skills that cannot be withdrawn from a bank machine; and the regrettable (though now unavoidable) misuse of ‘privilege’ to refer to any old scenario where one group of people has a little bit more access to something than another group does. (Have I missed anything?)

What remains is the daring suggestion that a woman might be against prostitution because she is attractive. Since it's already well established that we fat old frumps are against prostitution — no glamorous john would waste his beer money on buying our flabby arses, and we are bitter about it! — then I’m left with only one conclusion: a woman’s attractiveness has no influence on her opinions about prostitution.

A lightbulb moment for me. Thanks, tumblr. Hmm

OP posts:
ezinma · 26/03/2014 18:19

newbie, I'm happy to clear up any confusion. If the documentary you saw was Sex on wheels, it focused on four disabled people: three men, all of whom felt the need to use escorts and/or pay for sexual services, and one woman, who hung around bars and clubs chatting people up. The distinction between the men's and woman's approaches, as well as the issue of male entitlement, was made within (though not adequately addressed by) the documentary itself.

OP posts:
Baleno · 26/03/2014 19:00

An interesting perspective, Branleuse. Thanks.

newbieman1978 · 26/03/2014 19:23

ezinma

I'm more confused by your last post actually. I don't know what describing your view on that documentary has to do with my original post.

You still won't acknoledge that in my post I "didn't" refer to gender which is there for anyone to see.

And I fail to see where you draw this conclusion from the content of my original post :-

" but I do note that the good old male entitlement-to-sex thing seems to be alive and well in your post"

I don't know you but I'm quite hurt because I'm actually on the side of women when it comes to most all things including prostitution.

Like I said I'm not in favour of it but I was genuinely interested in the feninist angle of that particular section of prostituion as like I said it does pull on the heart strings somewhat when a disabled person feels they will never experience sex unless they pay for it ect.

TheGirlFromIpanema · 26/03/2014 19:29

What about a socially inept person with terrible odour problems Newbie, do they tug at your heartstrings too in that they may never have sex?

I can see why you're asking but it really isn't anything other than a way to persuade us that prostitution is ok imo.

Baleno · 26/03/2014 19:45

Branleuse, another patriarchal stance of anti-prostitution activists is that women can't decide for themselves. "My body, my choice"? Forget about it!

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 26/03/2014 19:57

I think my heartstrings are pulled by the women trafficked into prostitution without a choice:

As in this MN blogpost

Men feeling they're entitled to sex, for whatever reason, leads to this.

CaptChaos · 26/03/2014 20:00

What would be the feminist view on the prostitution aimed at disabled people?

My son is disabled. He may never have sex or a relationship. He might do though, we don;t know the future, maybe the able bodied will stop seeing him as other and he will have a chance to let his amazing personality take over from the disability, which is all anyone sees. He wouldn't use a prostituted woman though, because he's not a rapist. It's really that simple.

He's open to exploitation himself, why would he want to exploit someone else?

FloraFox · 26/03/2014 20:05

Lurcio I couldn't agree more! It's part of the myth of prostitution as the perfect job for nymphos, they're loving all this great sex and they'd do it even if they weren't paid so they might as well get paid for it. Great if you are having champagne then a romp with Richard Gere every other week. Selling access to your holes to 10-12 men a day for their gratification is not sex.

FloraFox · 26/03/2014 20:06

Btw, I know several people who have never had sex. They are not dead.

AnyFucker · 26/03/2014 20:07

I don't know why feminists despise sex so much.

Schoolboy error.

Personally, I find the people who romanticise and raise sex to some sort of religious experience are the ones with the biggest hang ups and entitlement attitude about it.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 26/03/2014 20:11

Great if you are having champagne then a romp with Richard Gere every other week.

Ooh yes, Flora, Wink and you get to drive fast cars, to go shopping with lots of dosh, and outsmart the snooty shops assistants, and you get to go to the polo, and outsmart the bitchy posh gals, then you get swept off by Prince Charming to live in his penthouse. Prostitution's just great, innit? A fairy tale no less.

FloraFox · 26/03/2014 20:14

Grin sabrina

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 26/03/2014 20:21

" The idea that servicing 10, 12 however many repulsive men a day could be, in any way, okay makes me wonder if the defenders of prostitution have ever had decent sex. Because surely if you'd had decent sex, you'd find the idea of a woman forced to put up with that out of financial necessity abhorent."

This.

FastLoris · 26/03/2014 20:25

I don't understand how men going to prostitutes means they feel "entitled" to sex.

I can see how rapists think they're entitled to sex, because they just take it regardless of the consent or attitude of the other person. I can also see how people having sex with prostitutes who have been trafficked and are working under duress could be seen as much the same thing.

But is someone has sex with a prostitute who makes his or her own decision as an individual to make that exchange of services for money, then where does "entitlement" come into it?

When I buy something from my corner shop, or hire a tradesman to do a job in my house, it doesn't mean I feel "entitled" to those goods or services. It just means someone is offering them and I choose to take them up on that offer, at an agreed price. If they weren't offering, or we couldn't agree a price, then I would accept that I don't get them. There's no entitlement.

Baleno · 26/03/2014 20:29

The idea that servicing 10, 12 however many repulsive men a day could be, in any way, okay makes me wonder if the defenders of prostitution have ever had decent sex.

I doubt that there are prostitutes who have sex with 10-12 clients a day. If there are, they must be a minority, because numbers don't add up. I remember a self-declared ex-prostitute being exposed because she declared such high numbers, whilst actual prostitutes, working in the same place she said, declared that on a "full day" their number was 4.

And I also doubt that most clients of prostitutes are repulsive men, unless you deem average men to be repulsive.

AnyFucker · 26/03/2014 20:33

men who use prostitutes are, by very definition, repulsive

and I won't name her, but there was a prostitute posting regularly on a different thread who was "servicing" at least 10-12 men in one working session

this was normal for her, and she was doing it to support her child and pay off "debts" to her "friend" who had supplied her with accomodation and drove her to jobs

AnyFucker · 26/03/2014 20:34

and yes, she admitted to finding the men "repulsive"

does that bother you, Baleno?

CaptChaos · 26/03/2014 20:35

I can see how men who exploit prostituted women think they're entitled to sex, because they just take it regardless of the consent or attitude of the other person.

They pay, therefore they can do what they like. This is entitlement. Men who use prostitutes feel they have paid to empty their balls into whichever orifice they choose, and that's what they will do, regardless of the consent or attitude of the owner of those orifices. This isn't just a random belief. This is what the punters themselves say.

AnyFucker · 26/03/2014 20:38

P*unternet should put anyone straight who misses the point about what men who pay for sex think they are "entitled" to

CaptChaos · 26/03/2014 20:40

Agree AnyFucker

FloraFox · 26/03/2014 20:42

I doubt that there are prostitutes who have sex with 10-12 clients a day. - hah! So much for being a neutral observer informed by listening.

Baleno · 26/03/2014 20:43

her "friend" who had supplied her with accomodation and drove her to jobs

There aren't enough hours in a day to drive around and meet 12 different men.

and yes, she admitted to finding the men "repulsive"

does that bother you, Baleno?

Not at all. Subjectively repulsive is not the same as objectively repulsive.

CaptChaos · 26/03/2014 20:44

Still not listening then.

FloraFox · 26/03/2014 20:44

A lot of prostitutes work alone in flats or in a brothel.

You've been very selective in your reading, baleno

AnyFucker · 26/03/2014 20:46

Baleno, you doubt her testimony then ?