Lily Allen - 'Men should be men'

[Lottapianos]

www.standard.co.uk/showbiz/lily-allen-men-should-be-men-and-not-spend-ages-in-front-of-the-mirror-9170174.html

I try with Lily Allen, I really do. She has a lovely voice. Her song 'The Fear' is great. 'Hard Out Here' had a pretty feminist message. But then she comes out with utter airhead nonsense like this:

'Im not into men who are vain or even wearing aftershave. It gives me shivers. Men should be men. Go out, earn some money, come back and look after my children.'

Jesus, are we really still on this???! What 'real' men do and what 'real' women do? Man as breadwinner? Does she not earn any money then? Is that her 'man's' job? FFS

I guess I'm extra disappointed because at times she has got it right and written songs about young women's insecurity and the ridiculous body and beauty standards we are expected to conform to and then she comes out with old dinosaur nonsense like this. I'm both angry and disappointed

I didn't mention your 'I'll bite' comment at all. I'll carry on thinking though, thanks all the same. Why are you wasting so much time defending Lily Allen on this thread anyway, if you think we're all just over thinking a load of silly celwb nonsense?

I'd rather over-think than the alternative :)

You know, I can't get myself worked up about Lily Allen. She reminds me of me before I properly understood Feminism. She means well but is oblivious to her own privilege (as evidenced in her Hard out here video. To be fair, we don't know how much control she actually had over that but lyrically the message was sound) and a little naive.

There is no 'bait' it is 'just' a conversation!

Yup "I'll bite" was mentioned by Fifyfomum not you Lottapianos, I stand corrected. Still it shows how easy we can misunderstand something we read if we want to..

Watch out for the handbags now msrisotto you are stepping into dangerous territory now. This is the thread for bashing LA no matter what she meant when she said what she said.

Remember all, there is more to life than opposites, in addition to overthinking and underthinking there is the much preferable just-right-amount of thinking.

Fifyfomum Seriously, are you for real? :-)

LittleVikingChick, are you a big Lily Allen fan? We are not talking shit about her - this is FWR, so we discuss things from a feminist/anti-sexist perspective. In this case, discussing the ideas expressed in that headline/article.

Also, to add on from what buffy has said, there has really been a stifling of conversation from you little, every time we begin to discuss the wording or impact we are shushed and told we are 'over thinking' or 'too theoretical' which is hard to understand, why do you dislike us talking about this so much?

Buffy Any thinking is over-thinking for fragile female minds.

Its a shame this thread has become so ridiculous, I started it with good intentions. Thanks to those who commented thoughtfully but I'm off, have had enough shit stirring for one day

Where to start? Or rather where to end maybe?

I find that life is too short to create problems in order to be grumpy about them. Creating problems to moan about is not clever, just a waste of time. I guess I am getting more mellow with age.

I think that LA´s comment was completely benign (I have explained why a few times already so won´t repeat it here) and can only with the worst of intention be construed as unfeminist. She was talking and somebody wrote it down. She did not pen a feminist essay, if she had you would expect her to put more thought into the exact wording. I prefer to err on the side of positive, ref above about not creating problems to be grumpy about. And, if I am going to slag someone off, I prefer to be sure about the facts.

Oh, and not a Lilly Allen fan, though I find some of her early stuff to be a refreshing and kooky change from the mainstream. Have not heard her new stuff yet as I´m not that interested.

I don't understand why you wish to moan so much about this thread.

little I really dont like the insinuation that I am 'not mellow' or immature (age comment) because I find someone talking about 'real men' unfeminist.

I actually come on here to relax, as well as watching a film or playing my guitar. I am not 'stressed out' about it, it is interesting and nice to debate about things.

Yes you have stated you feel the words are just words but a number of people have highlighted to you why that is not the case and why feminists the world over try to get people to be witnessed in the wording they use and what affect it has on society as a whole.

What irks people mostly about Lilly is that she says she is a feminist, she writes songs clearly designed to be edgy and cool and jumping on this feminist vibe that she herself has designed. Then she says things like 'Real men make money and look after children' without a seconds thought to what that really means. What it means is that she is pigeonholing men, the very thing that she writes edgy songs and makes questionable videos to apparently make society recognise in itself.

She is naive, I would even go so far as to say she is stupid. It wouldn't surprise me if she looks back one day and thinks 'why the hell did I write/say such diatribe. But while she says it, it is important that we are able to say 'no, this is not acceptable' because if we can't say 'Lilly it is not acceptable for you to pigeonhole men' how can we then say 'Robin Thicke (for example) it is wrong for you to pigeonhole women'

We can't. It HAS to work both ways.

BriarRainbowshimmer: Good comeback. I like :-)

But honestly, I find this amusing, almost energizing, that´s why.

Lily's talented artist,but she's as politically savvy as David Cameron.rich and out of touch like pm
She's needing to stop banging on like a home county housewife.really
Someone rich,and fetted telling others how it is,really clueless

Do you not think though buffy that someone claiming to be right on, to have a good sense of social justice and so on, who then spouts crap about 'real men' and parades around fully clothed in control of nearly naked women of colour is MORE damaging to the cause than it is good?

Yes the video is pretty undeniable isn't it.

I do wonder though, how likely it is that Lilly will be having indepth feminist conversations with anyone? I mean surely part of her privilege is not having to be on a level with or answer to anyone at all.

I dislike her gushings about housewifery,her real man,and embracing her wifey role
She's in a privileged position of being artist who for as long as she sells, calls the shots
Pov out if touch and unpalatable,and a bit sad a young woman is so blinkered