Feeling conflicted about (childless) man's feminist views on mothering

[NomNomNom]

Hi,

I think this is one of my first forays into the feminist section, although I've been lurking. I was hoping to get your balanced and reasonable views on this.

Basically, I don't know what to think about this - my personal pissed-offness is clashing with my political views, I think.

I have this colleague who is in his mid-20s (I'm slightly older), childless, very well-educated, very right-on, yet he seems inexperienced in real-life matters. I don't like him for various reasons that are not really relevant. Mostly that he expresses vaguely political views when it helps him impress people in positions of power at work, but doesn't really know a lot about the actual issues and seems to put it on a bit.

Today he posted a video on Facebook of a kind of spoken-word performance by a young female poet/stand-up that was all about the physical changes motherhood brings and how women are great, strong etc for what they go through during pregnancy, birth and breastfeeding. It was a great poem, I really like it, and it expresses many things I think as well.

But somehow I'm really pissed off that this guy has posted it. He has nothing to do with children. He'll never go through those experiences himself. I often think he jumps on political bandwagons, so I don't know if my discomfort is to do with that.

I think if a dad had posted the video, I would have thought how lucky his partner is.

But somehow, a childless (privileged) guy doing it makes me angry. I've always been a feminist, but only found feminist approaches to mothering and the whole mothering/motherhood distinction a little while after my daughter was born. Reading blogs about feminist mothering, Adrienne Rich etc. really helped me to make sense of my situation and feelings, some of it was so eye-opening and just amazing. I really like how other mothers seem to experience the same issues as me and then write about it in a thoughtful and concise way, taking apart the challenges - it seems like a kind of almost intimate community of mothers (that sounds completely wanky and essentialist, I know!). I don't know how to explain it. So somehow, I just get the sense that this guy I know is 'doing' feminism in an almost consumerist way, putting it on - because feminist views on mothering have nothing to do with his life, so why is he posting about that?

I have to admit that I occasionally feel slightly conflicted about aspects of my feminism - e.g. the whole question of whether men can be feminists (though I read a great explanation regarding how one can perceive feminism as either shared political aims or shared experience). I'm still on the fence when it comes to those 2 views, but I suppose for me feminist approaches to motherhood are rooted in shared experience, and this guy does not share it, so he should butt out.

But on the other hand, more men should admire women for the strength involved in making a person and nurturing them, so… I just don't know!!

I get it. You are projecting your own personal frustrations on to the guy. That makes your strong, out there, conclusions more understandable.

So, did you think the guy was (a) rambling or (b) smirking?

I think I was confused because I think we have different meanings for these words.

I asked about having a man film the poet because this is similar to having a man share it online.

Anyway, you are not old at 42!!

Not gone or bored! Just not able to express any useful views with eloquence or clarity, unlike everyone who has posted such useful analyses and perspectives here!

Hmm. I could see him washing up, tbh. As long as someone female and superior is watching. Actually, he knows that I often can't attend extra events that are to do with work but not compulsory - other people offer to send me information/notes or keep me up to date, he never has. It's not his responsibility, I know that, but it's not the others' either.

I just don't know. A lot of this is my personal dislike of him rather than my attitude to all men and the extent to which I think they should be involved in feminism. But the discussion regarding allies has definitely helped me develop my ideas.

I never pretended to be doing anything other than speaking from a very personal view point!

all the same I do not think it is "out there" that I think men like this should know better and I think I have something in common with the OP (at least) on this.

I feel old today, I have just had a minor op and it knocked me out more than I thought. And my 3 year old is going through a weird sleep (= no sleep) phase.

Here's a sort of tangent on another analogy...I work in a creative industry and I have seen a million great ideas go wrong in the execution. Great ideas by brilliant people can turn into dismal end products in a process of "death by a thousand cuts" - several stages of "minute" alterations (for all sorts of good, practical reasons) can just kill the spirit of the thing.

I feel that all this waffle about "allies" and "getting the men on board" is a massive distraction and an example of a similar thing happening to feminism. men are so good at talking, hogging the airwaves, making it all about them. they already control so much, it is so easy to find yourself doing things on their terms all the time.

I think it is fine to say "fuck that noise" to that process. I think it is fine to say "in our own words, said by us". I think it is fine to demand that this one thing has women front and centre all the time. And if they feel left out, well sorry but you have the rest of the world to play in. I don't get why this is such a huge issue. I really don't. To me this is such an error of taste. It is like having a funeral full of weeping friends and family, and some guy who once sold the deceased a car gets up to be the main speaker, and someone else says "hold on, didn't his wife want to say something? Or shouldn't one of his children speak?" and is violently hushed lest the car-sellers' feelings be hurt. Fuck his feelings! I don't give a fuck about his feelings! What feelings informed him that it was ok to get up in the first place? His feeling that he was at the centre of the universe.

Actually this is more like after the deceased's best friend spoke, movingly, and with feeling, the car-selling-guy gets up, someone else questions it, and is told, it is only fair because his best friend spoke so he should get a chance to speak too.

Oh hi nomnomnom! Nice to see you again

Dusk - I think this is where we differ. In this case you are saying that by posting a video online( a video created by the performer for the purpose of being viewed) he is rambling, speaking for her, taking ownership, smirking, etc. purely because he is a man. It's not logical. I'm not pandering to the mans feelings or views because he is not expressing any.

Anyway I look forward to your 'whitesplaining' posts on FGM threads or 'ablebodysplaining' posts on threads about disability.

Bows down to dusk and her beautiful, righteous anger and swearing

although like buffy am also agreeing with everyone on the thread...

Buffy - I agree the analogies are good but they don't apply to the original post. I can agree with analogies but don't think they are relevant to simply sharing a video, created for the purpose of being shared.

If he had mocked the video, dubbed over it, or taken credit for it then that is a different thread altogether.

Agreed Buffy, but in this case there is no opinion given and dusk still doesn't like it. So you can assume a man shouldn't even share a video. You can assume dusk has this view for other privileged groups.

The analogies don't reflect the situation. The analogy specifically talks about a man speaking for a woman. Regardless of her knowledge and experience of the subject.

To clarify, do you think posting a video is speaking for the poet? I don't to clarify.

Let me re word that, Buffy,

By sharing a video, do you think that is speaking for the poet?

So you agree that the analogy is more than likely off.

I think we agree. The poet maybe using social media and the viewers/sharers for her own gain. The sharers are really the mugs in this set up.

I get it might be, but shouldn't assume it is.

'Benefiting from the vicarious glow of radical work' when he hasn't worked for it - absolutely!

Also enjoying and agreeing with Dusk's righteous swearing.

Yes it can be inappropriate with comments and other evidence suggesting its inappropriate. But you shouldn't assume its inappropriate