Amnesty International says laws against buying sex breach men's human rights

[DonkeySkin]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2545003/Amnesty-calls-legal-prostitution-Charity-says-laws-ban-people-buying-selling-sex-breach-human-rights.html

The organisation is planning to adopt a position that calls for the full decriminalisation of the sex industry, including johns and pimps.

It is tabling a paper for its UK branch to vote on that says it is a human right for 'consenting adults' to purchase sexual consent from another person (regardless of the desperate circumstances that person may be in, presumably). The paper also devotes time to that latest favourite cover-all for sex-industry advocates, 'the rights of the disabled', as a reason to allow the continuing expansion of the global sex industry with no oversight or concern from governments.

Apparently the human rights of the (overwhelmingly) women and girls who are coerced, trafficked and enslaved inside the sex industry to satisfy the demand from men for paid sex are of no concern.

Oh, sorry - Amnesty does remember to devote a whole two words to this, conceding that prostitution takes place in an 'imperfect context'. That would presumably be the context of a worldwide patriarchy that devalues female human beings, denies them education, safety and fairly paid work, and tells men they have the right to use their bodies for sex regardless of their actual desires. Not to mention, systemic racism, colonialism and exploitative capitalism.

Good to know Amnesty is prepared to stand up for the most vulnerable people on earth - male sex buyers.

Yes, you have said that we should all just give up because it's difficult to police, and others, far more erudite and knowledgeable than I have deconstructed your notions.

The whole point of criminalising the men in the equation is:

That it increases the stigma for men who use prostitutes, because no one wants to be thought of as a criminal, and the vast majority of men would be mortified if they thought that their mothers knew of their use of prostituted women.

That it sends out a firm message that 'this society believes that women are equal to men, and should not be used as fucktoys', the evidence shows that where this has happened, trafficking has been reduced.

Buying of consent is happening underground as it is, it couldn't be driven further underground. This is the best argument you can come up with for retaining your right to paid for access to women's bodies? That something which is underground will be driven underground?

MNHQ - can we have a [fistinsolidaritysister] thingy?

Can we also have a [weseeyou] thingy? Maybe a blue long face?

They're all trying to get sex from women who don't want to have sex with them. That's what needs to stop - men thinking they are entitled to sex with women who don't want to have sex with them.

This. Just this.

We need a emoticon, that's for sure. I all you FWR sisters.

[fistinsolidaritysister] Sabrina

I suspect zeffa is being deliberately obtuse.

FloraFox - by no means all those who sell sex are vulnerable although, of course many are, however their vulnerability can be reduced by allowing ladies to work together in flats which is, I understand currently illegal in the UK.
People pay for sex in a multiplicity of ways. The client of a prostitute hands over cold, hard cash while the famous personality does not need to furnish payment in such a crude manner. The wealthy or famous personality can attract a person prepared to provide him (or her) with sex with the unspoken understanding that the mistress and/or toy boy will receive gifts and enjoy a luxurious lifestyle. This is not, technically speaking prostitution. It is, however prostitution in all but name as in the absence of his prestige and/or wealth he wouldn't be able to attract a "sugar baby" prepared to sleep with him for cash. So are wealthy or famous people to be exempt from the law prohibiting payment for sexual services? If not then how, exactly would the law apply to those engaged in a so-called "sugar daddy" relationship?

Hey zeffa - why don't you stop trying to have sex with women who don't want sex with you?

They don't want sex with you, otherwise you wouldn't have to pay them.

[weseeyou] zeffa We see you trying to justify your access to vulnerable and exploited women for your sexual gratification. Tell yourself whatever whataboutery you can grasp at [weseeyou]

Purchasing consent is not unique to prostitution. I employ a cleaner to clean my home. In return for consenting to carry out housework I pay her so I am purchasing her consent to perform a domestic cleaning service. A client pays a sex work for sexual services which she consents to provide in return for said payment. In both situation consent is being purchased. Obviously having sex with someone is a far more intimate act than cleaning their home but the use of cash to purchase consent is the same in both cases.
No one has yet explained to me how one can prevent the purchase of consensual sexual services where their provision takes place in the privacy of a home or hotel room. Of course where a crime has been committed (E.G. someone has been mugged or property stolen) the difficulty in apprehending the perpetrator should not prevent the police from taking action to arrest them. However mugging and theft are crimes with victims (the person who has been mugged or who has had their possessions stolen). In the case of one adult paying another consenting adult for sex their is no victim, the prostitute has gained money (her object in the transaction) while the client has obtained sexual gratification and/or companionship.
As for the shame clients might feel at having their faces appear in the media as a result of paying for sex, this already happens when, for example a man is convicted of kerb crawling, however kerb crawling continues so shaming does not stop people purchasing sex. I am not defending kerb crawling. Prostitution should, in my view take place where it can not cause a public nuisance, either indoors or in specially designated areas.
At present prostitution itself is not illegal in the UK despite many of the activities associated with it being prohibited by law. If escort agencies and/or massage parlours where banned then women would still offer sex but men would be forced to seek it, in many instances in the criminal underworld. This would make the life of both sex workers and clients more difficult and dangerous.

Does buying cleaning services cause a public nuisance?

No?

Then what is it about the purchasers of prostitution that does?

What's your view on buying pints of blood from people? Should this be legal?

Sex and cleaning are the same in your eyes, zeffa, aren't they? All services to be provided to you for money.

Is providing sexual services for you the same as a cleaning job? Vulnerable women lose their benefits if they don't take jobs - should women's (and mens?) benefits be cut if they don't take sex work?

Why do you want to have sex with women who don't want to have sex with you, zeffa?

If prostitution is just like cleaning, why are the users of prostitutes ashamed to have their pictures published?

GarthsUncle - Purchasing sexual services in public places causes a public nuisance but when such activities take place behind closed doors no such nuisance is caused. The nuisance caused where prostitution takes place in public places can include condoms thrown on the ground which is, obviously unpleasant and a potential public health hazard.

zeffa, why do you have sex with women who don't want sex with you?

I'll keep asking.

We obviously have a different view of consent. Consent is agreeing or saying yes to something so when in return for payment a sex worker has sex she is consenting. In many occupations people deal with those who, in social situations they would avoid, for example I have witnessed people being extremely rude to shop assistants. hHowever not all clients are rude to prostitutes as is demonstrated by the sex workers who have posted on this thread. I do care about the feelings of others irrespective of their occupation, however if you chose to be a sex worker you are making a conscious choice to allow clients (often strangers) to have sex with you. Adults who are in full possession of their faculties have the right to make choices of which others disapprove, including the right to buy and sell sex.

zeffa, why do you have sex with women who don't want sex with you?

come on zeffa, I need to do the school run soon.

So if prostitutes were either (a) only selling hand jobs on the street or (b) asking the prostitiutors to take their rubbish with them, would there be a public nuisance?

I can imagine the public information campaign.

"Punters - please use the bins provided"

"Punters - please do not cause a public nuisance when exercising your human right to by sex"

BuffytheReasonableFeminist - It is always a pleasure to converse with reasonable people who can engage in debate without using expletives. If children used such language in the playground they would be disciplined but, of course people on this thread are too grown up to swear at posters with whom they disagree. I am grateful for the courteous manner in which discussion is conducted and thank you and others for not using words which one would usually hear used by the uneducated and the illiterate. I have reported several personal attacks to the moderator but I won't pass on further examples as the use of foul language demonstrates brilliantly the inability of some on this thread to conduct a discussion in reasoned and measured terms.