Amnesty International says laws against buying sex breach men's human rights

[DonkeySkin]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2545003/Amnesty-calls-legal-prostitution-Charity-says-laws-ban-people-buying-selling-sex-breach-human-rights.html

The organisation is planning to adopt a position that calls for the full decriminalisation of the sex industry, including johns and pimps.

It is tabling a paper for its UK branch to vote on that says it is a human right for 'consenting adults' to purchase sexual consent from another person (regardless of the desperate circumstances that person may be in, presumably). The paper also devotes time to that latest favourite cover-all for sex-industry advocates, 'the rights of the disabled', as a reason to allow the continuing expansion of the global sex industry with no oversight or concern from governments.

Apparently the human rights of the (overwhelmingly) women and girls who are coerced, trafficked and enslaved inside the sex industry to satisfy the demand from men for paid sex are of no concern.

Oh, sorry - Amnesty does remember to devote a whole two words to this, conceding that prostitution takes place in an 'imperfect context'. That would presumably be the context of a worldwide patriarchy that devalues female human beings, denies them education, safety and fairly paid work, and tells men they have the right to use their bodies for sex regardless of their actual desires. Not to mention, systemic racism, colonialism and exploitative capitalism.

Good to know Amnesty is prepared to stand up for the most vulnerable people on earth - male sex buyers.

I joined a thread discussing this a few weeks ago, but quite glad actually if the Daily Mail have picked it up - possibly they could be helpful on this issue, even though usually terribly right wing.

I'm a member of Amnesty and think they're in danger of being very wrong on this. Hoping that it is still out for consultation and that they will change track on this.
Fine for the selling of sex to be made legal to protect sex workers, but not the buying of it IMHO
Because who does that protect, really?

I think they're wrong too to go down the path of sex being a human right.
As a PP said refusing to have unwanted sex is surely the only sex right there is. Other than that it's covered by such things as the right to pursue happiness etc. And other general equality and anti-discrimination rights.

I would be interested to take this up with Amnesty during the consultation, as I said as a long-standing member and supporter.

Oh, fuckety fuck! The punter objects to swearing.

What fuckwittery is this?? He just wants to pay women to fuck, and the women here are objecting. Some of them are swearing. Some are even laughing at him.

Oh jaaaysus.

zeffa if its all just economics and retail tell me how would you feel if your mother turned to prostitution?
Your sister?
I hope to goodness you don't have one, but, your daughter?

Still feel its only a transaction/purchase of intimacy then?

"Please reply with courteous language when I tell you that people like me should be able to buy and sell people like you "

What I would like is for men like you to start imagining what sexual equality for women would look like. It would be that no man would ever feel entitled to fuck a woman who didn't want to fuck them. Not even if he waves cash at them

Kafuckingboom!

When I was new (ish) here I posted something similar. Well, the same. I don't want to have sex with any woman who doesn't want to have sex with me. And yes, I'm an ugly bugger.

I might join AI to have my say and then flounce dramatically when they ignore me :)

Sabrina.

Reading the draft consultation document again I noticed in the third paragraph it says ....

"Amnesty International understands the imperfect context in which people choose to become sex workers (or miners or domestic workers)"

I'd just like to question the extent to which they do really understand this.
It's not at all clear that they do in the way they've written this or in their proposed policy.

The Nordic Model does seem much better to me.

WhentheRed - To consent is to give agreement or permission. In return for payment a sex worker provides their consent for sexual activity to take place. You obviously believe that people should not pay for sex, however to argue with the commonly understood dictionary definition of consent seems peculiar in the extreme. Consent doesn't rely on the person consenting liking what they agree to, it hinges on them signifying their assent which prostitute's show by accepting money. There is, of course forced consent, for example where force or the threat of coercion is used, however when a sex worker takes money in return for providing sex she has consented.

So, zeffa, why do you want sex with women who don't want sex with you?

Docto - If a sex worker doesn't want to have sex with a client (and she is free of coercion) then she can decline their money.
Equality is important. People should be treated fairly irrespective of their race, disability, gender etc. However a belief in equality does not preclude the acceptance of someone paying another for sex provided that the person providing the service has consented. No one has the right to tell consenting adults what they ough (and ought not) to do in private, to do so is an infringement of civil liberties and, to my mind runs counter to the values of a liberal society, one in which different lifestyles are allowed to flourish without people poking their noses into other's business.

I see you got the definition for consent from wiki. It doesn't include any mention of 'payment' in that definition, though, does it?

I don't agree you can buy consent for sex - I believe bribe would be a more appropriate word for it. You're bribing women into having sex with you.

From wiki: Bribery is an act of giving money or gift giving that alters the behaviour of the recipient.

From google: bribe
br??b/Submit
verb
1.
dishonestly persuade (someone) to act in one's favour by a gift of money or other inducement.

BuffytheReasonableFeminist - Most prostitution (other than coerced which is, thankfully a small proportion of sex work) is not about buying and selling anyone. It is about the purchase of a service. In return for payment a client buys sex and/or company for an agreed upon time-frame. When that period elapses the contract is fulfilled and sex worker and client go their separate ways. The language used by you implies slavery (the buying and selling of human beings). As I said people are not being purchased, it is services which are bought.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones - If we accept your view that sex workers are bribed then a very high percentage of the workforce is bribed as few people are fortunate enough to work in their ideal job. Most people, when push comes to shove work to earn money in order to pay bills, it is "the bribe" of the employer which causes them to behave in this manner. In reality people consent (are bribed to use your word) to perform a variety of jobs. I prefer to use the word consent.

zeff No one has the right to tell consenting adults what they ough (and ought not) to do in private, to do so is an infringement of civil liberties

Oh behave, you just made that up. You do realise we live in a parliamentary democracy, right? Not an anarcho-libertarian society?

There are lots and lots of restrictions on what we can do in private and commercially. In fact some of us even make a living advising on such things.

Our private lives are curtailed - we cannot have sex with our siblings. Our commercial lives are even more curtailed. You are trying to have it both ways - on the one hand it's private activity and on the other a normal commercial transaction. Somehow you're trying to triangulate a law-free zone which does not apply to other private or commercial activity. Fortunately we live in a society based on the rule of law and we certainly are able to make laws to create the society we want to live in.

My primary school aged children have a better understand of social governance than you.

So you think that prostitution is just a job, like any other? But on the other hand, that prostitutes can refuse a punter if they want to.

A poster on the other thread has said that although she feels she is a prostitute through choice, she cannot refuse clients.

Most prostitution (other than coerced which is, thankfully a small proportion of sex work)

Yeah right.

Living in a Pretty Woman dreamworld - and you're Richard Gere, right, zeffa?

Hi Zeffa

I have a couple of jobs to do round the house. My kitchen needs cleaning and my gay flatmate Bob would like a blow job. What are your fees for each, please?

Rape is sex by fraud or violence, it is, by definition rape. Of course a prostitute can be raped if she isn't paid or a client forces her to do something to which she does not consent, for example coercing her into anal sex when she has indicated that this service is not offered by her. A sex worker is not raped when she receives payment and the client respects her boundaries. You can not, by definition consent to rape although some couples do play rape games (this is something to which I can not relate as rape is something horrible. to me sex is about gentleness and, ideally should take place between two loving partners. However we don't live in an ideal world and this is why prostitution exists and will continue to persist and, provided that it takes place between two consenting adults of legal age it is no one's business other than those engaged in it.

I meant it is, by definition non-consensual. That is what comes of typing early in the morning

GarthsUncle - I make it a point of honour never to come between two friends and, as Bob is your flat mate I will leave you to oblige him.

zeffa - your ignorance, and your attempts justify why you fuck women who don't want you to, is astounding.