What would you do if a university student wanted to bring her newborn to class?

[camaleon]

That is really. I have to make a decision regarding this. I need advice. I want to accommodate this student as much as possible but I am very aware of disrupting other students' learning experience.
What would you do?

I see the point dusk. TBH, personally, this is an issue (to me) that is very similar to all sorts of other issues about how you make education more accessible to people who might otherwise not be able to get it. I know that's just me. But I think it is important not to treat bringing babies into class as some kind of unique lentil-weavery concession, but as similar to all sorts of other ways education is changing.

And being a student is not entirely like being at work. It's similar in a lot of ways, but basically, your boss pays you for doing well. She might nurture your skills along the way, but basically, you're meant to be good already.

LRD, what are the barriers to education and how are they being lifted?

the fact that it is so desperately expensive, yet still being carried on mostly full time and in the day, must surely be a huge barrier.

YY, that's a huge one.

But I was meaning the sorts of things I posted about upthread. I don't know if there are more distance-learning degree courses than there were ten years ago, but it certainly feels as if there are. But things like recording lectures, using the internet as a means of communicating with students.

Obviously, mental health issues and disabilities are not the same as having a small child who is dependent on you, and I wouldn't want to suggest it is. But I think more flexibility in general is what's needed, so it doesn't feel as if people are saying 'here is a special allowance for that woman with a baby' but 'here is a standard, routine way of adapting to people'.

Cynically, I suspect that when it's easier to get an education while caring for a small child, that men will do it in greater numbers.

Obviously there needs to be far more of it.

I think lectures are outdated now. Surely the only reason to turn up at a physical place with other people is for a practical, a seminar, a supervision, or something like that. The idea of tons of people crammed into a room while someone talks at them is pointless - surely they should just read wikipedia or watch youtube videos and then turn up when they are prepared to discuss it ;) (I am kind of serious but not about youtube and wikipedia)

Hi I've not read all of these. We are allowed to take our children in. I always try to minimise this. I think you should allow her up until the time when a child minder will be able to take the baby. I wouldn't really see an issue. But perhaps you could see what the other students think, too?

It is, after all, their learning that is effected as well.

Yes, I pretty much agree. I mean, I understand that if you lecture you can judge the feeling in the room and adapt to a live audience, but it's a fairly small 'pro' outweighed by lots of cons. And if you are having to fund/organise a babysitter I guess it's one more you have to work with.

I have just thought, though. Our lectures are 3 x a week, 3 hours each time (and I'm final year). The rest is directed and dissertation time. Is there really not a possibility of her having some-one to watch the little one for such a short time, and bring where necessary? I only take mine in when absolutely necessary because I like my head space.

I totally disagree with the concept of lectures being outdated. One of the most important thing you get from a degree is a network of people.

But is that intrinsic to lectures?

IME, a lecture is when the academic stands at the front of class and speaks. If you are networking during that time you will be required to be quiet or leave the room. Seminars and classes, OTOH, you might network in.

I hate conferences. With a fiery passion.

I also think they tend to thrive on precisely the kind of subtle gendered discrimination that is unhelpful. Not always, but often.

But you can have creches at conferences :)

Oh, I haven't seen that. But then the only one I've been to was a feminist conference, so obviously different.

You can - but then, you can have creches at lectures. I don't know how common this is, but I know a couple of universities where it's near-impossible for students to get a place at the university nursery/creche.

Feminist conferences are awesome.

Actually, it's them that make me think of all the different ways we could be doing things. Though the ones I've been to do fall under the lentil-weavery category dusk points out can have its own drawbacks.

I guess what I've seen is conferences (same with undergrad seminars) where the men speak more of the time than the women, but it's perceived to be equal. I would be really interested to see how differently an online chat forum worked for a class.

It's interesting - a lot of the alternatives to bums on seats teaching are seen as informal or lowbrow, as if it's automatically trivializing.

Cross post.

I like it, conference crashing.

I haven't read all the responses, but wouldn't it be reasonable to tell the woman she can bring the baby in for classes, but to please leave if the baby makes noise?

When the woman then has to make her presentations, ask if it's possible she finds someone to look after the baby for those times. It's not like it's every class, every day, so I would think she should be able to find someone for a few hours to help her out.

I think it's terrible that people think that a newborn is a reason for someone not to continue with their education!! If it's not disturbing other students, it's not up to you to decide if the mother can cope. I've certainly sat next to people in children who managed to be a total disturbance to the class without having a child in tow.

Lectures though tend to be going on constantly in various subjects rather than being all at a set time, and there will be fewer students needing childcare in each individual one, whereas a conference is attended over a longer period by a higher concentration of people.

I started reding this thread thinking that it would be a bad idea to let her bring the baby. I thought it might open the floodgates and it might be difficult to draw the line between a sleeping newborn and a mobile toddler.
But, after re-reading, I hope that the Op can accomodate the mother and baby.
If it is just a one-off and the presentation is an intergral part of the course, then I see no reason why the student couldn't take the baby.
Obviously, it would be better if she could arrnage alternative childcare, but if she is really stuck, then I think it is very supportive of the op.

"I would be really interested to see how differently an online chat forum worked for a class."

me too.
someone on here has already pointed out how interesting it is online that people can't literally talk over you. Individuals can ignore you, but you can still say your thing. It must substantially alter the seminar dynamic.
Also - the networking angle - a forum for your subject would be a million times more user-friendly for shy people, people who don't like physically approaching people, people with timed childcare or work shifts to rush off to, etc.
At work people are always saying "let's do a call" or "we need a meeting" and often I push back (if I have the confidence) because it takes up a lot of time and it is a way of them pushing themsedlves up my priorities, by forcing a personal relationship and investment of more of my time, which they don't necessarily deserve (I have the right to set my own priorities according to the needs of the business); and more importantly, they are deliberately switching the dynamic to one in which it will be easier to push me around, because I will be outnumbered, and the emphasis will switch from the logic of the situation to a relationship situation where I am being pressured to consider their feelings, and also they will - dammit they will! - do man-to-woman social stuff on me. I would love to have been able to do academic stuff online, including networking, to get out of shit like this.

"It's interesting - a lot of the alternatives to bums on seats teaching are seen as informal or lowbrow, as if it's automatically trivializing."

By people whose interests it is in to carry on striding about owning the space.

Me too! I find that I have gained a lot of confidence from chatting online (a bit like your point on the other thread, about noting points before you get a chance to say them, but noting them does something useful for you).

(So thank you for that! I luffs you all)

I think to people who are privileged by their persona in "real life" encounters, this online stuff feels like "barbarians at the gate". It is the very fact that anyone can speak which is so threatening, as they have internalised a confidence in life's "quality control" measures, in self-justification, when they not controlling quality at all - controlling all sorts of other stuff, but not quality.

In fact quality control is very easy online. You can read and sort through stuff very quickly that in a real life conversation you would be forced to put up with, through politeness, for ages.

Not being in academia, I am interested to learn that so much importance is attached to bums on seats. When I was at college no one cared what I turned up to. It was my education, and I was free to piss it up the wall if I wanted - but the exams would take no prisoners. If checking continuing engagement is now important, there are brilliant online ways of doing this effortlessly - a 5 minute IM "mini-viva" taking place at certain points throughout the term could allow a teacher to say "great stuff, carry on doing what you're doing" or "seriously? that was a trick question, there was no 4th Silesian War. Pull your finger out"

I was thinking about asking about this. I will have a newborn dc and will be taking a maths class for adults soon. (not a university course). I used to take my newborns everywhere with me as long as they had a nipple (of some sort) in their mouth they really didn't make a peep.

I'd let her if she isnt distracting the class (obviously I would). Telling her no, is only potentially putting her off university and other women too. ONly women will be punished by not allowing newborns won't they?