I support Page 3, who's with me?

[Beth9009]

This might not go down well, but I cannot accept the campaign to ban Page 3. Here's why:

There is nothing wrong with the naked female body. A woman posing with her breasts on show is not lewd nor is it harmful to children.

Hypocrisy - Page 3 is no different to male models posing shirtless in women's magazines.

Prudishness - People who claim that newspapers should be banned from showing topless women are no different to the Victorians or to people in conservative parts of the world who don't allow women to show bare legs. It's the same principle.

Market mechanisms - if there is a demand for something and a consenting adult willing to supply it, then who is the government to get in the way?

Freedom of choice - if you don't like it, don't buy the Sun!

StealthPolarBear Fri 17-Jan-14 15:05:39
"The stricter a society on female nudity and sexuality, the more violent and sexually aggressive the men are."

Says who? Just because you say it doesnt make it true

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You could look at the statistics but they don't tell you everything. Women in conservative countries are far less likely to report crime.

But aside from state, I think we all know that women are safer walking through the streets on their own in Europe than in the Arab world, for instance. If you don't agree with that, then I pray (figuratively) you never visit a country like Egypt because you will find yourself in danger.

Oh I thought Beth was spouting all this without any evidence.

She's been on holiday? I see now.

I was nearly raped by a group of Dutch men. They love their porn. And they have loads of prostitutes. Does my holiday anecdote trump Beth's?

Join the club Fetchez . Tunisian men don't have overwhelming animal sexual desire for me either.

I can't believe people are arguing that Arab countries are as safe for women as European countries. This is seriously depressing.

Even the Foreign Office warns women about being on their own in countries like Egypt.

No ones saying they aren't safe for women. We're arguing that page 3 isn't the solution to male violence.

Sorry, are safe

No one is arguing that. We are pointing out that you dont base a strong argument on anecdotes or things "we all know". And that correlation is not causation.

SauceForTheGander Fri 17-Jan-14 15:15:59
No ones saying they aren't safe for women. We're arguing that page 3 isn't the solution to male violence.
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Not on it's own, no. Sexual liberation, for men and women, is the solution for male sexual violence.

I have been to Egypt, Tunisia, Sri Lanka and Holland but was not once threatened with rape. In Amsterdam however, a lovely English chap offered my husband £200 to "Have a go with me"

We not so politely declined.

I have been threatened with rape in the UK. I have been flashed, followed and intimidated on several occasions.

Perhaps its only UK men that find me "desirable"

Page 3 isn't sexual liberation for women. It's a male construct

Op you are missing the point. Time and time again.

Why are priests significantly more likely to abuse children than ordinary men? Because they have had a fucked up sexual development. Their minds are perverted to believe that sex is wrong and something to be ashamed of. It's why sexual violence is such a problem in heavily religious countries.

Only in sexually liberated environments, where sexuality is encouraged not discouraged, can men and women have a healthy sexual development.

Why are priests significantly more likely to abuse children than ordinary men?

K8 where are you?

We need more royal pleas for evidence.

Until you stop making sweeping statements and back up comments with evidence then this is meaningless.

Its not even part of the solution OP.

It is a contributing factor to men's sense of entitlement that women's bodies are there for their pleasure. And that sense of entitlement adds to the rape culture. And that rape culture adds to...well...rape.

See where we are going here?

Someone upthread rightly pointed out that women being required to cover up and P3 are all part of the same continuum. That continuum is the control of women's bodies for men's pleasure. With a side helping of insinuation that men just can't help themselves.

I have never bought or seen the sun up close enough to know...

do they alternate pictures of semi-nude men and women?

If not then it is sexist surely?

I don't particularly like the idea of valuing people entirely on their sex appeal. But I have a massive massive problem with people valuing women entirely on their sex appeal while men are also allowed to be intelligent, interesting, athletic, etc.

It isn't the picturing of naked women as sex objects that bothers me anywhere near as much as the imbalance in how often it is women and men that are pictured in this way.

Yes, one can choose not to buy the Sun but girls growing up in households that take it don't have that choice. I dread to think how this makes them see themselves as they become women. For me it's the context. They see women objectified (a term you agreed with) in between news articles, in an entirely un-sexual context, learning their place and purpose as primarily sexual and decorative, there to titillate and please men.

I would be very interested in a proper academic study into breastfeeding rates among women who grew up in P3 households, for instance, or how such women fare academically and earnings-wise compared to their peers.

scallopsrgreat Fri 17-Jan-14 15:25:22
Its not even part of the solution OP.

It is a contributing factor to men's sense of entitlement that women's bodies are there for their pleasure. And that sense of entitlement adds to the rape culture. And that rape culture adds to...well...rape.
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But women's bodies ARE there for men's sexual pleasure. Just as men's bodies are there for women's sexual pleasure.

We are sexual beings and we shouldn't try to suppress this.

Ice the op has a calendar therefore all is well in the world

We are there for each others sexual pleasure when we want to be! For women to be treated equally it must be mutual sexual desire. Not women's naked bodies being plastered and manipulated all over the media, constant access to porn, strip clubs and prostitution. This is not freedom on sexuality this women's bodies being a commodity!

You're deliberately reading Scallops wrong, OP. She's not saying that sexual pleasure doesn't exist, she is saying that certain men feel entitled to avail themselves of women's bodies, whether or not the women in question wish them to.

Kin 'ell are you for real? Seriously?

You are spouting bollocks, the situation is not worse from women in places like Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia because men don't get to see enough tits n arse. It is worse for women as those countries view women as even lesser beings than the UK does, they treat women as being subhuman and having no rights. The situation with page three is just a continuum of that, women are judged on a set of unrealistic standards and we will never be worthy. No matter what we do we are judged on looks in the way men never are and we constantly come up as less worthy. We're all being objectified just in different ways.

Out of interest do you get on well with other women or do you get on more with men in general?

PrincessPeashooter - Out of interest do you get on well with other women or do you get on more with men in general?

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Men, definitely. They are less uptight than women lol.

I know reading other threads is verboten but you are 25 have no children (only a DSS BTW is your fiancées ex wife treating you with the respect you deserve yet) are not yet married but you don't work as your fiancée supports you?

Get a job and learn some self respect, then once you've grown up a bit you might start understanding the issues.