The Feminist Pub - come in and chat.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

This is something like the fourth pub chat thread - please pull up a chair at the bar. Everyone welcome.

Old thread is here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/1920422-The-Feminist-Pub-continued?

But it's pretty much full so welcome in.

Oh yes, and often comedians who thrive on satire will point out obvious sexism too. They're not always perfect but I like the fact that it's a thing to make fun of now.

I used to know a bloke who lived in Stratford upon Avon and walked his ferrets on a lead.

Ah, LRD cunningly linked to the Disney Princesses further down
'Twas a feminist trap

No, was it?! Shit.

Sorry pacific. You saw through my long game. I am indeed a mole of the patriarchy.

moon - that's true. And also, I don't imagine that 10 years ago this place would have been the same. I do think this is a real third wave (fourth wave?). So the bad stuff is backlash, really.

Well, the princesses were in period-correct dress, so academically sound

Yy re at least some feminist thinking being a bit more mainstream.

Night, all.

Aw, cute furry creature pics

Night pacific.

I should have said before - but have you seen the current twitter campaign? Amnesty have decided it's a good idea to say that prostitution is in some senses 'work'. If you've not seen and are on twitter, the hashtag is 'questionsforamnesty'.

Amnesty have? I can't believe it. The pro-brigade are powerful indeed. Jedi-like, if you will.

I'd better have a while I'm here

I'm actually really peed off with Amnesty now.

Mail, sorry, but: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2545003/Amnesty-calls-legal-prostitution-Charity-says-laws-ban-people-buying-selling-sex-breach-human-rights.html

prostitution is in some senses 'work'
would that be something like the same way child labour is 'work'?

An example of 'human rights' trumping 'gender equality'? As if prostitution is gender neutral. Gender equality is always bottom of the pile isn't it?

Sorry to go fom very intellectual Amnesty thing (can I say, really cross about that, too) back to toddler groups but.......can I stick up for toddler groups? Haven't visited one for quite a few years now but, having had 4 kids I did spend an awful lot of time at them. They weren't exactly hotbeds of intellectualism (I remember, with horror, the week that I discovered I was the only parent there who was planning to vote in a forth-coming general election, for example) but they were, often, hotbeds of female friendship, and a haven of female sympathy and kindness and understanding. And for that, and for the life-long friendships I made there, I am very grateful.

I thought the Princesses were quite interesting. What about the untouched underwear ads below that? I want to see a model with stretchmarks, that would be interesting.

I agree, rosa. Going straight from the workplace into motherhood was a tremendous shock to me when I had baby no1, and toddler groups gave me lasting friendships and stopped me going mad. Although I did get asked if I'd swallowed a dictionary once I'm not that intellectual!

Hi Antlers have a - what's the real ale thread?

errol - yep, pretty much.

Our own frothydragon summed it up for me - I saw her post 'if this is work, will teenage girls be require to go on work experience'.

Anyway, won't derail - sorry, we were on toddler groups.

I understand there is really strong evidence that groups help against PND. I think it is like MN - people have a go, but actually it is hugely good for mental health.

Not derailing at all, LRD - it's an important subject.

I think I found toddler groups so important because I was the first among my close friends to have a baby - they were all working. My life changed - I was getting invites to meals that started at 9pm when I was bf'ing a newborn! I was lucky that I had family around - but being at home with a first baby can be quite lonely - I think this comes across on MN quite a lot.

Just got back from a talk by Malcolm Gladwell. He spoke about an incredibly rich American woman called Ave Vanderbilt who was converted to feminism by her daughter the Duchess if Marlborough, and his message was that any time there is a lack of justice then it will come back to bite you on the ass.

An there's a whole argument that toddler groups are so disparaged cos the menz don't like us wimmin all getting together and talking and shit, as if we were human with feelings and friendships of our own.

....as if we were human with feelings and friendships of our own

Like your turn of phrase.

Todder groups rock.
Amnesty sucks (in this context)

Hi ho, hi ho, off to work I go.

At least amnesty are consulting on it, it's not a dust accompli.

Dust = fait

Toddler groups would be great if it wasn't for all the small sticky noisy people ...

In retrospect I really wish I'd gone to one regularly - but I worked ft from home with a nanny which made going off in the day with DD somehow rather difficult. I made some good NCT friends but they're not really local. Another of those scenarios unlikely to affect many men I guess.

NCT friends have been fab for me.

off topic but.. aww ferrets and kittens cheered my out of my rage - thankyou!