challenging sexism/misogyny

[enlightenmequick]

I'm fairly new to feminism.

Long story short, I am increasingly dismayed at our sexualised culture, I have 3 dd's and I'm fighting back against oh now that my self esteem has picked up.

I've started to read more and contribute on here a little bit too.

But 2 mins ago I challenged someone for the 1st time on being sexist/misogynistic. It was only in fb not RL, but it's a start.

He is a married gay man, whom I knew years ago. He has posted a sideways picture of a woman having a meal with 2 female friends. She has large breasts that look like they are defying gravity because I expect she has a push up bra on.

His slogan- any one lost any puppies?

I've asked him, if she is known to him, or has he just took a picture of a stranger's breasts and posted them on fb without their permission?

Right or wrong? Would you have said anything and what? Please.

I defriended someone and blocked them on FB recently because of their sexist comments. I might have let one thing go, but it's more than once, after I told him I didn't appreciate it the first time.

So yes, I would have said something.

I would have said something too, probably in RL rather than on FB if I wanted to keep the friendship. I have told a FB friend before that I found a post offensive, and he took it off. Good on you for challenging it. I wonder what you mean by fighting back against your OH, does he have sttitudes you don't like?

Well, he has replied. Said 'I was referring to the 2 little puppies that ran past. That ran past so quickly, my camera missed them '

urgh.

mighty yes unfortunately he does.

I'd probably post a link to the Everyday Sexism website. However I am known for just deleting people like this. They have no place in my life and I am happier without seeing that sort of nonsense.

Or I'd have said something like 'If you are going to post this sort of sexist crap then at least have the decency to follow it through. Or have you also lost your meatballs?'

My reply.

'If I went to a nudist beach, and saw a man with a small/misshapened/ugly penis, and I took a picture on the sly and posted it on Facebook, for everyone to laugh at, I'd be thoroughly ashamed of myself. I find it offensive that men think they can do this to woman, and I'm shocked at you tom. I would have thought that being gay, you would have some 1st hand knowledge of what it's like to be treated as a 2nd class citizen, and I would never have thought of someone like yourself being a misogynist- but hey, you learn something new every day'

What do you think?

I like your reply. You aren't attacking him and I think your 'reverse' example is a good one. Hopefully he'll get your point

Small victory- he's deleted the post. Yeah!

Oh, good. Hopefully he will think twice another time. After all, we all have bad days, and we do make mistakes. It's when people don't learn it's a real problem.

Good on you OP. I like it! Call out misogyny wherever it is - sadly sometimes within other oppressed groups. Glad he deleted it x

Hi

Take a look at:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2003777-To-not-know-who-from-the-Musketeers-Id-boff-first

Is this sexism on the part of these ladies? To help decide, imagine these comments made by men, about women actors, say in Hollyoaks. How would you then view those comments?

Here is my (light-hearted, but with a point) post:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2003777-To-not-know-who-from-the-Musketeers-Id-boff-first?pg=33

BTW I am against misogyny, and am certainly not arguing FOR sexism such as in the home or workplace, but we do need to recognise the innate, natural emotional and physical responses of BOTH sexes to each other - as in the thread I've highlighted.

That thread does not bother me but us guys enjoy that type of banter too. My only point is to ask for both sexes to cut each other a little slack. Where's the line to be drawn, if any? And who gets to draw it?

I'll be interested in your views.

To clarify. My post above is not a response to the specific subject that started this thread. Please treat it as a new topic.

we do need to recognise the innate, natural emotional and physical responses of BOTH sexes to each other

Unfortunately the OP was talking about a GAY man commenting on the breasts of a woman who is not in the public eye. So, not comparable. This is about men feeling it's OK to comment on the appearance of women who are strangers going about their private business.

Is it OK for people to comment on how attractive they find actors? Yes, I think that actors (especially in shows like Hollyoaks or Musketeers which are not, ahem, heavy on the intellectual content) are partly employed for their attractiveness. And people in the public eye have publicists etc to help manage their image and protect them from the worst of the comments. Whereas the woman the OP's friend was commenting on was just going about her normal life. So they are not comparable actions.

Imagine if you happened across a photo of yourself taken by a stranger in a public place (this is perfectly legal) and commented on by lots of other strangers. Wouldn't you find that upsetting and invasive?

Hi traderpd,

Thanks for your enlightening posts, which by your own admission are irrelevant to the OP. I wonder why you would deem it appropriate to demand we discuss your point, despite it's irrelevance, on this thread? I also wonder why you would post the irrelevance on a thread where the previous post is dated almost 3 months before? You then demand that we not only discuss it on another woman's thread, but that we treat your comment as a whole new thread.

This is misogyny in action. Women's voices being silenced and overruled by male voices, even if the male voice is irrelevant to whatever it was the women were discussing.

Might I suggest that, if you don't want to come across as being massively entitled and mansplaining, you actually take the trouble to ask MNHQ to delete your posts and you start a new thread.

Hi-5 Chaos

Hello again

I was drawn to the thread because it is headed 'challenging sexism/misogyny', which is a general heading, so I think my post was on-topic as it fits within those terms. And, as you say, the previous discussion was three months old so a new take on the subject isn't inappropriate.

You make a good point Lego' and that's certainly one place to draw a line. But when we consider page 3 girls, they put themselves in the public eye and yet it, and the readers, are frequently condemned as sexist. Should it be?

I don't like page 3 in The Sun at all. Not because of the images (if you condemn those images you also have to condemn many women's obsession with the likes of Daniel Craig wading out of the surf). But I don't like where they are (they're definitely not news), or the reason they're there (to sell newspapers). But even Rebekah Brooks tolerated it.

Chaos - 'misogyny in action'? Really? 'Women's voices being silenced'? I think you've over-stated your case. I specifically invited everyone's views.

And I wasn't trying to silence the 'Musketeer Boffers' I was applauding it. All I was asking was for guys not to be condemned for doing the same.

But I'm sorry if came across as demanding in my text, that wasn't intended. I was trying to be conversational. It's notoriously difficult to infer tone online.

It is not the responsibility of feminists, especially ones on a feminism forum to stop in their discussions to educate men about the basics. You are a big boy, you can do this all on your own. I suggest you start here

Yes, traderpd, misogyny in action. Men coming into the middle of conversations and dictating what direction that conversation should now take, because this is what he wants to talk about is all about silencing women. The fact that you you don't see that is because of your inborn privilege, just for being male, lucky you! I do think it's odd though, that in your second post, you suggested that your post was not a response to the OP, and yet in your third you state that you felt it was relevant, are you deliberately trying to gaslight there, or was that a mistake? Forum etiquette would suggest that posts on a thread should either answer or discuss the OP, or at least be of relevance to later posts.

I can only reiterate my previous suggestion that you start a new thread in order to discuss your topic, should you still have questions after reading the FAQs slug suggested you read. They are extremely informative.

traderpd your views are perfectly well stated and make sense from your perspective. This is a feminist forum so they will never be accepted as they do not make sense from a feminist perspective. Any polarised-groups discussion will only be derailed by a person questioning the basis of their beliefs and their assertions will seem baseless as you disagree with the foundation of their arguments.
It's best to either suspend disbelief and contribute as a feminist or find another forum.

Steina I have no problem at all with his views on anything. I merely think that posting something you know and admit to being off topic is a bit of a no no with regard to accepted netiquette, and could be construed as acting in an entitled way. If he were to post his views in a separate thread, people might be more interested in discussing them with him.