The Feminist Pub (continued).

[UptoapointLordCopper]

Been busy. Came back today to have a look but the Pub thread was full! Shall we continue here?

Third episode of Borgen on tonight.

I'll have some please. Large glass. Bucket in fact. Can you tell I'm missing it in real life? my measly 1-2 unit portion once in a while is all very well, but sometimes you just want an enormous glass, and today is one of those days. DD2 has a cold and is grumpy. DD1 is coming to the end of her first term at school and is grumpy. Both are sleeping badly and DH is away on a business trip. Roll on Friday!

I don't really understand what Cis means.

TBH, it's only since getting into feminism that I've understood a difference between sex and gender. In common usage, gender is often used as a polite version of saying sex. Because, you know, sex also means the rudey rudey. Hence people asking whether I'm 'finding out the gender' of this baby.

Bucket of wine, coming right up!

Sorry to hear you're having a rotten day. Roll on Friday indeed!

I think probably my failure to understand how someone could be cisgender and feminist results from the fact I can't get my head around 'cis' either. So not the best person to talk about it really!

I've noticed how 'sex' meaning 'whether someone is male or female' has come to sound a bit rude now that 'gender' is so much commoner as a term. But I don't think when we were little it would have been odd to talk about the sex of a baby.

Soooo, feminist christmas, eh? I am currently doing fuck all because that way, of course, DH will do it. Yes. That will work.

Oh, yes, sex is vair rude

Penguins, I used to really, really miss blue cheese when pregnant. I don't really like it that much normally and I was not craving it, but I just resented that I couldn't have any and felt quite hard done by every time I went shopping. . Cis or not, I am certainly a bit weird.

So, here's your - it's in one of DH's glasses that hold a whole bottle . Enjoy!
I hope you and your DCs and your bump survive each other's exclusive company with some enjoyment.

LRD, I know you are not trying to tell anybody they can or cannot be a feminist. But I still don't understand... Whether a person is gay or straight, or cis or not, or whatever, they can still be a feminist or not, yes? How does being cis exclude somebody from being a feminist? Just indulge me for a bit - I think we mean the same thing....

Feminist Christmas - good idea!
So far, DH has ordered our tree, I've put it in a bucket of water, he's but it in its stand and watered it in situ and put lights on it (technical = man's job). I've got the baubles and shit out of the eves, but CBA to put them on. I've also managed to miss the M+S last ordering date for our turkey crown - dammit! I was looking forward to it as well.
Ah well.
I'll be off 5 days in a row and Cannot Wait.
In fact I'll be working 3 days in the next fortnight which seems the correct work-life balance to me

pacific - it doesn't, really.

I was indulging in hyperbole because I was talking in shorthand.

I didn't mean 'this person cannot be a feminist, I refuse to allow it'.

I meant, 'I don't follow how someone who believes x, which I think is mutually exclusive with y, can also believe y.'

I am aware plenty of people believe things I consider to be mutually exclusive and often they explain them in simpler terms and I get it. I just don't get it with 'cisgender'.

If someone is, for want of a better term, a 'feminine' woman, I'm sure they can be a feminist. If someone identifies as trans, I'm sure they can be a feminist.

I don't follow how someone could say they're 'cisgender' and also want feminism, which seems to me incompatible with that worldview.

I am very often wrong and this really isn't one of those areas where I feel confident to argue.

Your DH sounds a prince among men.

To be fair, mine carried the tree home from the shop, which I was most glad of since it's prickly.

He has his uses, I think I'll keep him for the time being (remember he is good with cars too - shame he is a 'typical man' on the old communication front, but that's for another thread...)

Ok, I think I will have to leave the cis thing - until tonight I hadn't even heard of it. It may need to sit in my brain and mature and ferment a bit.

Speaking of fermentation

I had my work's night out Saturday, it was fab, there was dancing in the pub (no dance floor) and I only found one of my contact lenses in my eye the following morning .
Mind you, advanced middle-age meant that it took me tip well in to Sunday afternoon to recover from it. Just as well my social life is almost non-existent and this only happens once a year; I may not survive more regular outings...

Do keep him.

And thanks for the

I was also recovering on Sunday. I am having to be very sensible until Christmas, I think.

Just crashing in totally off topic, sorry.

My precious angel oldest boy (11 and half) has his first girlfriend.

He asked her out today (he's been telling me how he likes her etc for a week or so). Anyway, I asked him what it was that had made her stand out for him over the other girls:

"Because she's really clever and she's funny - she's in the top maths class".

I swooned, because there was no mention of 'because she's pretty'.

I've always tried to subliminally get across that it's more important to be around people who make you laugh and who you can be friends with and talk to, so hopefully I can avoid having to deal with vacuous plastic girls when he proper starts having girlfriends.

Am also crushingly sad that my baby is growing up

Aw, he sounds fab Monica

BTW, it's a pub, the conversation is meant to meander pleasingly.

Aw, he sounds lovely, monica.
My DS1 will be 11 in the spring and I am not ready for girlfriends.

Virtual cannot make you an alcoholic, can it??

If I could offer a little clarification--as commonly used, I think "cisgender" means "I accept that I'm female/male, as I've been treated all my life", i.e. I don't feel like a transexual, born in a body that I'm uncomfortable with.

Being cisgender doesn't mean "I accept all the commonly assigned attributes of femininity and masculinity". There's no conflict between feeling comfortable with one's body and feeling righteous feminist urges to change the world around it.

Nope. Nor can it give your child FAS. Which is why I ingesting it by the bucketful. DD2 has only just gone to sleep and I am following her in preparation for the inevitable night duty. Night all

I think I had enough too

Tei, thanks for that, I think you've hit the nail on the head where LRD and I were talking at cross-purposes.

Maybe I am horribly jaded, but I can't see how there cannot be a conflict between feeling comfortable in one's body and feeling a feminist urge to change the world.

It may just be me. But I can't understand that at all. It seems utterly contradictory.

Anyway. monica how lovely. Bless him.

Very sweet that he talked to you about it, too.

Oh, darn.

I cross posted and we probably were cross-purposes for no good reason.

Thanks!

It's funny, they seem to be in a mad rush to pair off all of a sudden (started secondary in September) I don't think it's proper boyfriend/girlfriend stuff. I did ask what going out entailed and would he be snogging and he said no, I'll probably just call on her in the holidays or something.

He was not bothered about girls at all until last month, so I think it's just the thing of the moment to prove how 'grown up' they all are.

I'm on high alert now though after the 14 yr old pregnancy thread that happened last week. Scary stuff.

Sorry, the was to LRD, not to teenaged pregnancy.

I am deffo off to bed.
Night, all!

It sounds pretty far from teen pregnancy worries - and hope it stays so.

And night, pac. Sleep well!

Your ds sounds lovely monica, I'm glad he's picked a girl for her personality rather than her looks. My dd1 is 14 and I've been waiting for her to start with the boyfriend stuff for what seems like ages now but she's not interested. She'd rather read a good book I think. I have no worries on the teenaged pregnancy front.

I just wanted to wander in and say how much I enjoy reading this thread. I'm not a particularly well-read feminist, but I've learned a lot from the FWR boards.

Am currently going through quite an emotionally draining part-time working request, hopefully to be resolved by mid-January. Has been going on for 9 months now. I wish there were more men in my organisation taking up PT work, to make it not such a gendered issue.

We had our team Christmas party last week, and in the midst of all the alcohol-fuelled conversation, I found myself described as "more extreme than my girlfriend, who is a "jihadi feminist"", and "wanting to send all men to the gas chambers", then a colleague introduced me to a stranger as "top totty", didn't even mention my name. This person is my peer, and introduced me like this to a friend of his superior.

I work with these men, and generally have no problem working with these men (and I can more than hold my own against them professionally), but those comments have put me out of sorts for a few days now. I think it's so normalised. I wasn't even saying anything particularly controversial at the time, I challenged my colleague's assertion that "women are taking over the world".

FFS.

Cisgender simply means 'not transgender'. Nothing to do with feminist status or how feminine you are/gender stereotyping

I mention my cisgender status in order to not be cissexist and exclude trans people.

Zh top Totty
That is quite unbelievable
I assume you can call him a big dick without him taking offense

He might be flattered by big dick. Call him a nincompoop.