When will MRAs realise that it's Misogynists who hate men, not Feminists!

[BarfaStewart]

I was thinking about this again last night.

Feminists believe that men are not genetically programmed to rape, abuse, hurt, cheat or oppress.

Feminists believe that men are responsible for their own actions, and capable of behaving decently and treating others equally.

It's the Misogynists who assume that they can't control their penises/behaviour/actions.

It's Misogynists who believe women should manage their own behaviour to avoid triggering some genetic fuckwittery.

So, why is it that Feminists are painted as man-haters, and not those who actually do?

Answers on a postcard please....

Mysoginists give all of us men a bad name! Love a woman, treat her well and she will love you and care for you in return. If you hate women, marry a man.

Yes, to both.

They don't understand that it's a structural problem within SOCIETY.

For the same reason that a liberal-thinker might make a rape joke, they wouldn't rape, so why shouldn't they joke about it..

"But they, personally, have not done any of these things!" Not my experience on the internet or in real life of MRAs. They are normally abusive men who really don't regard or treat women very nicely at all.

But yes Barfa totally agree with your OP.

Mind you, I think it is perfectly understandable and reasonable to hate your oppressors too. It's not as if you haven't got good reason!

scallops, true. But no-one wants to believe that they are abusive tossbuckets, do they? So they justify their own actions to themselves.

They won't ever realise. Too much self interest at stake.

Yes I see what Buffy was saying now - from their perspective they are perfectly reasonable, respectful people.

Are there different kinds of MRAs, just as there are different kinds of feminists? Or are they (MRAs) all just a homogenous lump?

Having recently been introduced to the howling vortex of stupidity that is MRA, my first-approximation analysis is that they are living proof that, while you should never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity, sufficiently obdurate stupidity is indistinguishable from malice. Most of it seems to be based on the idea that you can make a problem go away by denying it exists. Or establishing that someone else is to blame. Or whatever square you need in reasoning-fallacy bingo. One can only hope that every move to a properly equal social order results in fewer of the blighters, but in my more cynical and twisted moments I'm of the view that whiny, stupid ringpieces are just a fact of the human condition. Hence the ability of the tories to get elected.

biggedy, there are certainly different types.

There are those who are very "liberal", think porn is great, and a woman should have the right to be exploited filmed having sex, it's all about equality, innit?

There are the scientists who believe that men have been providing for eons, it's in their nature, and women are naturally subservient.

There are the chauvinists, who believe that women should be treated like ladies, bless their little cotton gloves. They put women on a pedestal, but don't actually have any real respect.

There are the Whaddaboutdamenzers who get upset at all the injustices that men face (child custody is a favourite topic) but don't accept any suggestion that it's all down to the structure of a patriarchal society.

Then there are the abusers, who believe that women should know their place, and if a man has to discipline, then he should. She asked for it.

Please add your own!

while you should never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity, sufficiently obdurate stupidity is indistinguishable from malice

My new favourite quote.

Another vote for:

"while you should never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity, sufficiently obdurate stupidity is indistinguishable from malice"

YYY. I was just going to say that when it comes down to it, a lot of them are really just woefully, hopefully stupid and their stupidity is enhanced by their life experiences which have reinforced their stupid notions. That lack of intelligence shines out from their posts. But KissesBreakingWaves has said it more succinctly.

There are the scientists who believe that men have been providing for eons, it's in their nature, and women are naturally subservient. Scientists, as a class, don't believe this. Only non-scientists think this is true. Science has known for a long time that behaviour is a mix of nature/nuture. And even though behaviour has heritable components, it doesn't make it in the least inevitable or justifiable from a moral perspective - nurture has a huge impact.

I do agree with the rest though of course.

no, I wasn't referring to real scientists. Rather to the men who use evolution as an excuse.

I've come to the conclusion that the world is full of stupid people a lot of them seem to be in government. They may not be deliberately malicious, but that doesn't really help me if they are too stupid to realise the consequences of their actions. The result for me is the same.

The answer, BarfaStewart, is that they will never realise that. This is because, deep down, they hate men too. They may call themselves men's rights activists, or some other label, but they have such a low opinion of themselves and other men, they feel so inadequate, that they project it onto everyone else.

Oh I see Barfa - just get uppity when I perceive a science dig.

Anyone actually met a self-proclaimed MRA in RL?

No, BFG. I wonder if they exist outside of the internet? It's a great place to come and spill anonymous tripe.

I have. I was on a Masters' degree course a few years ago, he was part of the FFJ crowd. He was having trouble with access to his kids. Within about an hour of meeting him, I realised I wouldn't have given him access to the cat I haven't got. I'd have been a bit chary of leaving him in charge of a houseplant I didn't much care for. (He dropped out of the degree course when he discovered that Hard Sums were involved.)

I wouldn't have given him access to the cat I haven't got

(He decided I'd be sympathetic because I was having access trouble in the courts myself. I've maintained contact and as they've grown up they've come to have roughly the same opinion of their mother as I do. They're counting down the days when they can say stuff the court order and move in with me )

Does MRA-ism purely revolve around custody and other child-related matters? It's all I ever seem to read about.

No it's also very keen on ensuring that women take responsibility for not being raped. Very keen on that.