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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

The Feminist Pub - come on in, chat, ask a quick question, ramble ... whatever you like!

999 replies

LRDtheFeministDragon · 30/10/2013 12:05

Hello and welcome! Pull up a chair!

This thread started when we all decided to imagine what the perfect local for feminists would be like. So far, it has taps with plenty of good real ale, and some decent non-alcoholic alternatives too. There are comfy chairs and there's a feminist film night, as well as lots of nice feminist-friendly books on the shelves and space to curl up and read. The open-mic nights are attracting feminist singers and comedians, and we're just sorting out the feminist creche.

Old thread is here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/1875250-The-Feminist-Pub-is-Open-Chat-Rant-or-pull-up-a-chair-here. But don't feel you need to read or catch up - just jump in.

I'm having a nice cup of earl grey but there is wine mulling as requested.

What can I get anyone?

OP posts:
TheRealAmandaClarke · 02/11/2013 13:56

Mmm I think a stones ginger wine would be a good idea.

TheRealAmandaClarke · 02/11/2013 13:57

No problem. I found your comment quite reassuring really. Thanks.

Grennie · 02/11/2013 13:57

We were getting ready to go for a walk, and then it started raining.

scallopsrmissingAnyFucker · 02/11/2013 13:58

Stones ginger wine. Haven't had that for 20 years probably Grin

PacificDogwood · 02/11/2013 13:59

The Law of sod, grennie.

It's bucketing down here, sun's out too, glorious rainbow Smile.

I am alone with 4 semi-bored boys, DH is working (all weekend), house could do with tidying but I am busy GrinBlush

scallopsrmissingAnyFucker · 02/11/2013 14:06

Ahh we defied the Law of Sod today and got inside just before it bucketed down Grin

TheRealAmandaClarke · 02/11/2013 14:08

Ah. We have rain too Sad

Grennie · 02/11/2013 14:10

It has stopped raining now. DP has went out to buy a birthday card. But if it stays okay, we will try again.

AntiJamDidi · 02/11/2013 18:34

I don't wear make up. I used to put some on for nights out but stopped that a few years ago when I realised that I just didn't care what people think of my natural face. Dd1 is starting to wear some for school and for some reason I feel like I've failed as a feminist mother because she's buying into the beauty thing anyway. Then I remember how I was at her age and how much pressure young women are put under to conform, and I stop worrying about it and start believeing that she'll come to it in her own time.

I don't shave very often either but I do find it a bit uncomfortable to go swimming with hairy armpits. I caused quite a stir at school in the summer because I wore dresses that showed off my unshaven legs Shock

PacificDogwood · 02/11/2013 19:03

It stopped raining here in time for darkness to fall Biscuit.

And I went to the shops with DS4 only to realise as I got him out of his seat that I had left my wallet at home. He fell asleep on the way back, so good result anyway Grin. And much cheaper. Although fridge and cupboards are bare so will have to go tomorrow anyway

So, not an entirely successful day, but I read The Gruffulo's Child with DS3 and was quite pleased that she is a girl Grin.

PeggyCarter · 02/11/2013 20:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

APartridgeAmongThePigeons · 02/11/2013 20:09

Took the little ones to see Freebird. Feminsint fail.

It does star Amy Poehler and she kicks a bit of butt but her main purpose is love interest really and everyone else I mean really ALL the other main characters (and it's a cartoon so there are dozens) are male. And white if I recall correctly except for the native Americans who don't actually feature but show up in the last scene for thanksgiving.

Girl turkeys unlike boy turkeys have eye lashes apparently

The females besides Amy Poehler include a child who runs around and falls asleep and is only onscreen for about 5 minutes and introduces a larger female housekeeper as whateverhername is who is the house keeper and EATS her feelings and then a female aid to her father is introduced as whateverhername is who likes my dad

Also had a "better than my wife's cooking joke"

All the scientists and soldiers all men.. Just shit really.

Oh and besides having Amy Poehler and George Takaei.. it still wasn't funny. I mean how can you be that crap.

APartridgeAmongThePigeons · 02/11/2013 20:10

Not Free bird..

Free Birds (sorry)

APartridgeAmongThePigeons · 02/11/2013 20:11

Joyful have you thought about putting on less item of make up every month?

I know how you feel about showing your daughter the make up routine. I basically stopped wearing it at all since having dd.

APartridgeAmongThePigeons · 02/11/2013 20:12

One less item of make up.

PeggyCarter · 02/11/2013 20:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PacificDogwood · 02/11/2013 20:23

Ach, again I think we mothers bear ourselves up about this a lot more than most fathers would: how many fathers do you know who worry about how their dress sense is affecting their offspring?
My boys are like this -> Hmm when they see me shave my legs/put contact lenses in (happens as often as makeup wearing)/put henna aka 'pond scum' on my head Grin. I have to confess that I am not bare in the ladygarden arena partically because I don't want them to think that is 'normal'. And I think it's kinda weird

DS1 picked up recently how girls and boys are expected to do different things: boys - football, girls - ballet and he was all Hmm again. So maybe there is hope...

PenguinsDontEatPancakes · 02/11/2013 20:28

I am home. I have wifi and a laptop. No more multiple posts (I hope!). Am still Blush

I am pondering make up. Hopefully back in a bit.

APartridgeAmongThePigeons · 02/11/2013 20:29

puddle :(

APartridgeAmongThePigeons · 02/11/2013 20:33

how many fathers do you know who worry about how their dress sense is affecting their offspring?

Yeah, but they haven't got to do anything at all, so they don't need to worry about their decisions affecting their kids.

Dh shaves his face then decides to grow a beard- no comments no funny looks.

I bet a man who enjoyed wearing makeup would wonder how it was going to affect his children because he would be out side of societies idea of "normal".

PenguinsDontEatPancakes · 02/11/2013 20:47

Puddle - Sad Can I ask why you can't stand strangers seeing you without? I ask because I used to feel a bit like this. Then I realised that that was really odd at a logical level. The people I knew and loved, the people whose opinion I cared about, I was happy for them to see me utterly dishevelled - pjs, unbrushed hair, etc. Yet people whose opinion I gave not two hoots about, I worried.

When I was younger I loved make up. Had loads. Did different things. Probably wouldn't have gone out except to the corner shop without.

Since having the kids, I've shifted drastically. I think it started when DD1 was a baby and getting out of the house on time meant ditching the non essentials. It wasn't a conscious thing. I still wore it for work, but not necessarily socially. Now I'm a SAHM and yes, I generally still wear some (bit of foundation, eyebrow pencil and mascara. Sometimes one or more of blusher, eye shadow or eyeliner) but I also happily go for days where I don't get around to it and don't give it a second thought. It's been the same with hair. I do still shave legs and underarms (and tidy my bikini line), but I am less obsessive. I'd feel funny with hairy armpits though. I think that's my line. Overall though, I'm pleased where I've ended up on those issues.

PenguinsDontEatPancakes · 02/11/2013 20:52

On talking to DD's, DD1 has asked about makeup. I said "I just like how it looks, like you like some clothes." She was fine with that. She has asked to paint my face a few times and covers me in black eyeshadow whiskers, etc. I don't actually have a problem with her understanding that lots of women choose to wear make up. I would hate her to hear things like "I need to put my make up on before I can leave" (I'd say "I need to finish getting ready") or see it affecting choices I make though. One of my pet sadnesses is women who take the kids swimming and then spend the whole time not getting their hair wet.

TheRealAmandaClarke · 02/11/2013 20:58

My 3 yo ds has worn nail varnish, at his request, after seeing me apply some (for hols). I thought it was every cute (but then I think everything he does is cuteBlush)
I have always "dieted" to maintain a size 8- 10 and I I'm conscious of how that will influence him, but especially dd.
My dh does not diet. Ds has asked him if he has a baby in his "big fat tummy".
Are fireworks a feminist issue? Dh took ds (first time) to the firework display locally this evening. I was at home with baby dd (bf). I love fireworks. I love my dd more. Being the male definitely made the difference on this one.
So. I was a bit Envy but really pleased they went. And totally up for the arrangement. But I did have a little think about how some things are just so because I am a woman.

TheRealAmandaClarke · 02/11/2013 21:02

Yeah same penguins 20:33 28
Now I think "shit. Cba. I've got to take this off later" with regard to make up.

PacificDogwood · 02/11/2013 21:05

how many fathers do you know who worry about how their dress sense is affecting their offspring?

Yes, true, men as a rule don't wear make-up, so would have similar dilemmas (maybe worse?) to face if they decided to.
I ment more generally, men who, say, wear a v smart suit to work vs. surfer dude dad won't agonise too much over how their choices/work 'uniform' affect their DCs. And I know young adults who are absolutely mortified by their kiddult parents Grin.

There were of course times when it was men who also wore makeup and high heels and v intricate clothes and being more 'embellished' was a matter of class/money/power and not just gender.
I thought Boy George (O'Dowd) looked good with gold leaf makeup and a beard recently!

Re hair: I am a keen swimmer and always get my hair wet, but wish I didn't because I end up looking like this and it is an effort to tame things again. So I wish I was one of these people who manages to not get their hair wet.