Can I ask you for some links about porn please?

[EhricLovesTeamQhuay]

Specifically accounts of ex porn actors talking about abuse/coercion in porn films, and anything academic about the effects of porn on male sexuality and sexual attitudes?

I've read bits, but I'm already convinced. This is for a friend whose new boyfriend doesn't get it and she feels like she doesn't have the evidence to show him.
Thanks

sorry perhaps it wasn't explicit enough in that. I struggle to see anything inherently wrong with the depiction of human sensuality on screen. if you don't like it don't watch.

it how we understand sexuality and pornography in it's in its context is the issue.

ok to answer that question, you have to ask another- how does censorship of porn work?

positive statement I don't see it does. essentially Someone has to make judgements as to "right" and "wrong" depictions of sex.

I haven't seen sufficient arguments to say the concept of porn is inherently bad. or inherently good

my problems are with the societal issues surrounding porn, which there are different ways to approach.

"Playing devil's advocate means challenging yourself to see different sides of the picture before you make an thought out opinion"

No, it means taking a position you don't necessarily agree with for the purpose of a debate. It's highly tedious to argue with a person who says at the end that they are playing devil's advocate and it is a commonly used derailing tactic:

finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/resources/mirror-derailing-for-dummies/#surprise

Great posts Paperlantern

I agree with Iceland's approach to ban all violent porn. It is no coincidence that it is officially recognised to be the best country for women to live in.

So does anyone know if this has actually happened yet?, as there has been a change of govenment. I'd be interested to know what their definition of violent porn was too?

Would you? Why don't you go and find out then, AngryFrank, and report back with an infrmed opinion - that would be great!

I don't think I understand this debate any more. I do know what playing Devil's Advocate means though, if that helps at all?

Oh yes please AngryFrank, that would be really helpful.

Trying to break it down, there seems to be 4 issues

the production of porn, and what it does to the performers.

What consumption of porn does to the users and how it interferes with their personal relationships.

The ubiquity of porn, how that exacerbates the problems relating to point 2, how it influences expectations on people who don't consume it themselves, how it interferes with peoples, (esp teens), own sexual development and practices.

What porn says about the status of women.

and of course, as well as defining the above, forming a conclusion as to whether harm is caused or not.

Going by those, sinister, my opinion would be there is harm on all 4 counts.

The only justification seems to be 'well I like it.' I used to say I liked smoking when I smoked - doesn't mean it's good for anyone (except the companies making money out of it).

I'm getting old and crotchety. To the question "does porn do harm?" I just want to say "of course it bloody does. And nobody with two brain cells could argue that it doesn't, unless they are a man desperate to get his end away or a woman for whom any male behaviour is fine so long as he stays with her"

But obviously I couldn't say anything like that.

Curlew - is it case of getting rid of porn? And how is that done?

Or do you want it regulated and 'ethical' (don't like the word ethical)?

People act like a ban on pornography is some crazy weird thing that could never be achieved. You do realise that child pornography is illegal, right? People are prosecuted for the possessing child pornography on a regular basis. Neither the world nor the internet has exploded as a result.

That's weird, isn't it, Flora.

It's the way people were before the smoking in public ban. "That'll never work- you're insane to think it'll..........oh, look- it worked!"

Child pornography is still about. It's underground. I'm not sure what affect it would have banning it. Probably the same as banning prostitution. Would you need a worldwide ban?

Curlew - they didn't ban fags everywhere. No smoking in the pub is like banning porn at work (with out the addiction, in some cases)

Murder's till around too. Doesn't strike me as a reason for decriminalising it......

There is no such thing as child pornography, bale. Children cannot consent to sexual acts - filmed or otherwise.

You are presumably talking about filmed/online child abuse.

Sal - I said child pornography but of course I agree with you that it is filmed child abuse just like pornography is filmed prostitution.

Bale filmed child abuse is illegal in many countries and no, you do not need a worldwide ban. Of course it still exists, as does murder, although that is illegal. We wouldn't need criminal courts or prisons if making something illegal made it go away entirely.

I know you know that flora personal bugbear of mine.