Can I ask you for some links about porn please?

[EhricLovesTeamQhuay]

Specifically accounts of ex porn actors talking about abuse/coercion in porn films, and anything academic about the effects of porn on male sexuality and sexual attitudes?

I've read bits, but I'm already convinced. This is for a friend whose new boyfriend doesn't get it and she feels like she doesn't have the evidence to show him.
Thanks

I would have no problem with a government ban on porn. The government currently draws the line on all sorts of policies because we live in a parliamentary democracy. That's how it works.

I don't say we need to encourage women to make porn. I asked the question. At it's heart it's trying to point out the incongruities in the opinion.

If the objection to porn is the imposition of one generations sexuality on another, both genders making it is one solution

Both sexes making porn is not a workable solution in a patriarchal society. Men's porn will always be the default and women making it too just legitimises men's porn. Also, there's no guarantee that the women's porn would not be imbued with patriarchal values as we all live in this society.

The Nazi party was a democratically elected party too. Golden Dawn in Greece has or had (I'm not sure on the situation now) a democratically members of parliament. Tony Blair persuaded a whole country to go to war on the basis of little more than opinion

We should never stop questioning whether the line drawn by our democratically elected government is in the right place

You are right I'm not blithely unconcerned about porn. take it to the other extreme though since you mention children, princess films do not present a image of women do you censor and remove them from sight or do you present them alongside healthier images and allow the child to work it for themselves. on way or another you as a parent have to make that decision. What happens when the encounter the prejudice inherent in the early princess films in other formats? if you have never encountered it or attempted to understand the difficulties will you even recognise it for what it is?

I suspect though buffy our answer to this would be the same.

FloraFoxForAnyFucker - oh dear I fear now I am going to ask why

"Men's porn will always be the default" why assume this? it's self defeating. can you never change a male dominated society? Does this mean you don't try. Or for that matter support the women that are trying to put female views of sexuality on film?

perhaps not allow the child to work it out alone necessarily but offer a commentary on the both versions

"We should never stop questioning whether the line drawn by our democratically elected government is in the right place"

I agree but this is very different from your previous statement which was whether we wanted the government to draw the line or did we want to draw the line ourselves.

Porn is not like princess films. It doesn't help to draw false comparisons.

With porn, we can't draw the lines ourselves because sex involves other people therefore we are exposed to other people's attitudes to sex. Education from parents are of little value compared with peer influence. Every parent knows this.

Laws shape the society we want to live in. I want to live in a society which does not include porn.

"can you never change a male dominated society? Does this mean you don't try. Or for that matter support the women that are trying to put female views of sexuality on film?"

I won't try to change it through the medium of porn. And no I won't support women trying to put female views of sexuality of film because (a) I see no inherent benefit of female porn and (b) it just serves to legitimise male dominated porn.

Porn could be argued as projecting a male dominated (wrong word too tired to work out the right one) view of who a woman should be, much like princess films

Education from parents are of little value compared with peer influence. Every parent knows this.
NO I don't know this, not for sure and I don't think this is supported by research either. Additionally this assumes the influence from a peer group can only ever be negative, again successful anti bullying campaigns suggest this isn't so.

Saying we can't draw the line ourself abdicates responsibility for doing so. Yes we can. I have never smoked or taken drugs simply because for me the risks were too great. I have been offered a cigarette but I chose to say no. I didn't need a wide scale smoking ban for this to happen

I want to live in a society which does not include porn.
Is this realistic? you might want to but someone else may not. what makes your want wrong and another's right?

Flora fox - what about the woman who do enjoy porn? and yes they do exist

what I mean is you can't see an inherent benefit of female-centric porn for the women who enjoy porn? another area where the question of the porn discussion crosses over with discussion over female sexuality

how does pornography advance the liberation of women as a class? How does pornography promote the substantive equality of women?

Not sure pornography in it's present format does, although I think the negative aspects have been sensationalised somewhat.

banning pornography is one "solution" but it is only one. I suppose it is playing devils advocate somewhat but female produced pornography arguably does allow the exploration of female sexuality in film. therein is a kind of equality which focusses less on suppression and more on expression.

What do you think the benefits of porn are? Why should we not ban it
I did answer this. I'm not convinced of the inherent benefits of porn in the slightest. Doesn't mean I support a universal ban for all the reasons to do with state censorship I explore above and actually because I'm not convinced it will resolve the real problems inherent in the making of it anymore than Blanket criminalisation of drugs prevents drugs existing

Is there anything wrong with an opinion being fluid? If it is fluid why wouldn't you question others about firmly held beliefs?

I am anti a ban on porn as much as the concern that a blanket ban is unenforceable undefinable and doesn't address the real issues of why men use it, if and whether women do or don't use it and whose idea of pornography do you ban? Do you want that person or government with that much control of art and the media

I am concerned about the portrayals of women on film. but I do not believe the link between porn and violence towards women or the pushing of woman into acts they don't want is proven. Or for that matter helpful. Women can suffer abuse as a result of their partner drinking taking drugs just being a git.

Also whole question of prolifieration. I don't not believe it is proven that men mostly use hard core porn, this again I think may have been sensationalised somewhat.

and taking the opinions of some ex porn stars is a very poor way of winning over supporters to an anti porn debate. I'm damn sure if you looked hard enough you would find opinions the other way too.

I had typed a long response to your post to me paper but I CBA now I know you're playing devil's advocate. Fuck that. You should have been upfront about that at the start and I would have ignored you.

I don't know there are benefits to porn. ive said that three times. I'm not sure actually that's the point either seeing as I'm not advocating the widescale watching of porn either

Playing devil's advocate means challenging yourself to see different sides of the picture before you make an thought out opinion.

is the depiction of sex on the screen inherently wrong or is it the context.

ie in a positive statement. I don't consume porn not because it doesn't turn me on but for the other issues surrounding it.

resolve those issues and is porn inherently wrong

not sure feminism should ( in its present format)

damn sure feminism shouldn't be advocating anything that disempowers women to make their own choices over life. Therefore don't think feminists should support censorship either.