The Feminist Pub is Open - Chat, Rant, or pull up a chair here!

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

This thread started when we all decided to imagine what the perfect local for feminists would be like. So far, it has taps with plenty of good real ale, and some decent non-alcoholic alternatives too. There are comfy chairs and there's a feminist film night, as well as lots of nice feminist-friendly books on the shelves and space to curl up and read. The open-mic nights are attracting feminist singers and comedians, and we're just sorting out the feminist creche.

Please come along, draw up a stool, and have a good chat about whatever you fancy - as serious or as trivial as you like.

For starters, I have a half-pint of lemonade. What can I get anyone?

People think MN is over-academic sometimes, too. It brings me up short and then I try to remember not to assume everyone knows the same shorthand.

I remember the toenail painting avice.
I think it was lazy and thoughtless. But tbh, i find that true of much of the platitudes dished up to me as a new mother.
And I am willing to believe that my newborns needed me above others (i like to feel wanted ) but agree that being a woman didn't neccessarily prepare or equip me for the specific work involved in meeting their unique demands. Bloody hell I'm tired.

I think I'd better go to bed - I read Pacific's "lived feminism" as "livid feminism" and thought that was a bloody good idea ... Best take myself off to bed before I misread anything else ...

Well, if we can have a Church of Allan because of a typo, I think we can start the Livid Feminism movement for the same reason...

One thing that I have noticed in rl and on here, that is how unaware many people are of the broad range of abilities and properties humanity has.

Some e.g.s

Someone citing Russell Brand as being uber rich cos he has 10 million, when there are many people who see that as just about enough to get by on for one person.

Others saying that they can't imagine only spending 30 quid a week on shopping, many hundreds of thousands of people have to do that.

People thinking that this board is really academic, when it ideally isn't all that often.

Others unaware of just how many people are not and never can be functionally literate.

I don't want those examples to sound ridiculous, but when you consider how may millions of people there are just in the UK then of course there will be quite a large number who occupy the further ends of any spectrum that can be drawn (rich/poor, old/young). Some people only seem to see or conceive of people who are close to them in the range and maybe a few outliers who are almost alien by comparison.

I don't think this board is really academic, but people who don't read a lot of non fiction may think so.

I don't think this board is at all academic. But yes, lots of people are functionally literate.

I don't think this board is very academic, that's why I like it. There may be a few things that I don't always understand but that's because I haven't done much reading around the subject yet. I can usually follow the conversation though, even if I don't feel I have anything useful to add to it. Most of us here are functionally literate, I know many, many people irl who aren't, they would never really come somewhere like this because they'd find it intimidating even if they could read it all. Sil would take so long to just read the words she would lose the meaning behind it. She might be able to join in the conversation if it was spoken, but even then I think she would zone out unless. we all used easier words.

I liked thinking my newbornneeded me the most too, but actually for both dds they would have been happy with anyone who fed and cuddled them. I don't think me being female made me more suited for the job than a man would have been. In fact I know my dad is WAY better at the caring stuff than I am, he kept sweeping in to rescue dd1 from me when I looked like I was about to lose it through lack of sleep. it sounds interfering but I was very grateful because she was a high needs baby who screamed all night every night unless there was a boob in her mouth.

Sometimes this board gets academic. I like to hang about in the hope I'll learn something. I used to read ALL the time (although mainly fiction, it's true) now I don't have the head space) read "the no cry sleep solution" and "the womanly art of breastfeeding" in the last 2 yrs as well as "the woman who went to bed for a year" and "Gone Girl". That's it!
So you academic types carry on please, I need to soak up the atmos.

I think this board is pretty good. I learn lots all the time.

I find it easier to read than to listen to people. Perhaps it's because I have a deep distrust of things that are not written down in black and white.

"Livid Feminism" - I like it - motto of the day for me.

i think this board is quite good at 'applied feminism' (if that means what i want it to mean) as well as touching enough on the academic side if people want to explore that.

The only time when being "academic" is a problem on a site like this, IMHO, is If it becomes too discriminatory. If i am unable to use the academic "lingo" or apply a specific theory to a RL situation, then it's easy, if someone wishes, to dismiss what might be a valid point being made. IYSWIM. I can think of examples but wriggly DD has other ideas. See you later for a large Chablis. Mmmmm.

that is true theghost - sometimes if there is an accepted academic term which has a particular meaning, but it also means something slightly different in everyday speech, it can cause confusion and upset where actually people are in agreement generally

I think it is important to explain terms. And that happens with loads of terms. Like the people who do not understand what racism means and thus argue for reverse racism.

For example I had never heard of PIV or amnsplaining until I posted on MN. I just asked, and someone explained it.

I think this board used to be far more academic. And to be honest, I think that was a mixed blessing. I do value threads that go deeply into the theory, like the one beachcomber started a few weeks ago. I do wish we had more of those. But I can't do them, I can only lurk.

I think sometimes people think this board is academic because we do use jargon, as you say grennie. And I think MN as a whole can be quite academic. I actually think peopl are underestimating that.

Seriously - there are people on here who I've heard say they're not academic types at all, or don't have education beyond A Level, and they could run rings around Oxbridge undergrads when it comes to clarifying feminist principles.

theGhost - can you share the example or might that not be fair? My gut feeling is that "big words, not fair" is often actually a complaint about the content expressed about the form because that is something that is more likely to gain sympathy

I think if you are an experienced feminist you have ideas that are not mainstream and you are inclined to use certain words to express them, which may also not be entirely mainstream. Pouncing on those terms and whining about them being, for instance, exclusionary, is a way of whining about being forced out of your comfort zone in seeing things you don't want to see, but not admitting this

I mean it's not like anyone posting on here doesn't have google

(Not that I am perfectly convinced Oxbridge undergrads are the pinnacle of academic intelligence, but you know what I mean. )

They don't even need to google. They can just ask. People have asked in different discussions what MRA means. Someone always explains.

There are a lot of women here who could put not only Oxbridge undergraduates (who for the most part are not that amazing, in my experience ) but Oxbridge academics to shame in terms of the breadth and depth of their thought on feminist issues... and who are much, much better than the majority of Oxbridge academics at explaining their views in engaging and comprehensible prose.

It's fantastic.

That's true, mooncup.

Hi all, just popping in to say hello. I agree mooncup Talking of academia, I am absolutely knackered at the mo. I'm studying social theory as an undergrad which is all very interesting but some of the posters here would put my lecturers in the dark.

I am reading Gramsci who speaks about elite intellectuals and the need for what he calls organic intellectuals whilst the left are still figuring out where these organic intellectuals can be found, feminism leads the way. There are so many brilliant insightful posts here. I think what sets feminism as a movement apart is the fact that as women, as something that is so fundamental, immutable and material we develop theory very much grounded in our understanding of our actual experiences.

Hi (guzzles Chablis before DD wakes up - oops too late)
Ok. She's feeding
you'retoastmildred Do you know what? The example escapes me but might return and i will share it. I guess what I mean is that it's easy, if one wishes, to dismiss someone's point by using academic language (not even neccessarily jargon) if the person making the point isn'tparticularly articulate or well read. Sometimes this might just be a valid argument against the point the person is making. It's very useful if faced with a mra making some especially knobbish point. But it can also make for an uneven playing field. Some ppl can easily create cliques by being ........ I dunno... Obtuse? It's a bit like intellectual shouting down.
I'm not expressing myself very well. But I also see that it can work both ways. Eye rolling or huffing in response to someone making an intellectual argument rather than listening or, God forbid, accepting one. Ith be in the wrong.
Interestingly, I am often in the company of academics, just not feminist ones. Mainly male geologists and physicists . I love listening to them. And their arguments are so far removed from my perceived reality that it's easy to sit back and enjoy Think about childcare issues

My studying days are behind me now. Which is just as well because I am living proof of the reality of baby brain. I maintain this is sleep deprivation and not solely a female thing.