The Feminist Pub is Open - Chat, Rant, or pull up a chair here!

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

This thread started when we all decided to imagine what the perfect local for feminists would be like. So far, it has taps with plenty of good real ale, and some decent non-alcoholic alternatives too. There are comfy chairs and there's a feminist film night, as well as lots of nice feminist-friendly books on the shelves and space to curl up and read. The open-mic nights are attracting feminist singers and comedians, and we're just sorting out the feminist creche.

Please come along, draw up a stool, and have a good chat about whatever you fancy - as serious or as trivial as you like.

For starters, I have a half-pint of lemonade. What can I get anyone?

Oh the pub was clearly a lively and interesting place last night! I just wanted to clarify my post from yesterday, I don't think we should all be very theoretical and academic and serious all the time at all! When I said 'some posters who use offhand or casual language', what I meant was the posters who manage to sound patronising, particularly when something serious (like domestic violence) is being discussed. Sometimes it's language that can be considered cliched or over dramatic. It's often quite subtle but the tone is along the lines of the infamous "Calm down, dear" scenario. The whole point of it is to belittle feminism and the issues we discuss.

It's probably me being over sensitive. I love this thread by the way, it's like an oasis.

Oh, I follow you, rosa. Yes, I agree.

Rosa - I totally agree with you. Some other threads elsewhere do make me angry. Oh your DH hit you - maybe he just had a bad day, just try and calm down and dont say anything you might regret. Or, you found your DH has been looking at violent porn. Is it really such a big deal?

Yes constant minimising of the issues. It happens fairly constantly. But it is also why strong feminist voices are important here.

I think a lot comes from people posting from a perspective of their own experiences IYKWIM - as we all do of course.
So is somebody is putting up with their partners porn use and has not done a lot of looking at all the different issues re porn beyond their own personal life then they may well advise somebody else 'suck it up' .

I agree with the minimising language though - I am quite fond of a flippant throw-away comment, but (hopefully) not on any kind of serious issue.

On the whole I think women as a collective should be much more vociferous, outspoken and angry. Says I, who is v peaceful indeed .

Yes, I agree with that pacific.

Yes anger can be good. I have been reading Phyllis Chesler's Women's Inhumanity to Women this morning. Incredibly thought provoking.

I've been reading - & actually LOLing at - Tina Fey as recommended earlier/the other day (what day is it?). Just a bit sad at the stuff on breastfeeding. Sad for her that she had a hard time with it & met some v insensitive women who'd had more positive bf outcomes, and pissed off at 'teat nazis' to describe these unfortunate and no doubt annoying souls.
That's a tiny part of a very funny book though. Thanks for the recommendation.

Oh and I've been remembering reading - same thing, right? - a piece of sneaky dirty misogyny I didn't recognise as such at the time, from the NHS 0-5 book I was given 5 years ago (hope it's changed now) suggesting that sleep deprived new mothers might find it more refreshing to get up and take 20 minutes they'd otherwise have spent sleeping to paint their toenails, as that could help them feel better about themselves.
Whichever handmaiden (I just bet it was a woman, how awful is that? I am among the Frequently Awoken atm: is this colouring my view with a wash of bitter sexism?) came up with this deserves to be woken hourly until 18 months after she's come to see the error of her ways.

God, that's depressing.

I think I've painted my toenails all of three times in my life. I certainly do not plan to do it with a newborn!

Oh, the v damaging well-turned out, sparkly eyed, glowing with fulfilled motherhood-joy mother of a newborn - what a crock of utter shite!

I happen to love painting my toenails but even that fell by the wayside whenever there was a young baby in da house - really, really not a priority. And what would've made me feel better was more sleep/BFing working out/baby screaming less/more family support, not pink tootsies.

God, this makes me livid even though I have just emerged in the last year or so out of the 'looking after baby' fug.

Just as well I never really spent much time on those NHS tomes .

I remember a fight debate with my dad about whether young babies biologically needed their mothers more than their fathers and that therefor women were "instinctively" better equipped to be 'maternal and 'caring'. Gawd, I had such a learning curve, there was nothing instinctive about it.

There's another of 'em out there and MNHQ are all at Sunday lunch.

I grew up with a mother who was deeply embarrassed and ashamed of being overweight. I was curvy, but size 14 and 5'8" and guess what? I was also deeply embarrassed and ashamed.

Now I am considerably heavier, obese in fact, but I have a very healthy diet and exercise regularly. I have a mixture of medical problems that mean I will always be this way. I feel much more confident as I no longer worry so much about how I look.

And that is the key really. Whether you say positive or negative things, focussing on a person's appearance makes them lack confidence as we have relatively little control over it. Most of our physical appearance is set by our genes and we can't do much but influence the top layer of how polished we look.

No amount of salad or exercise will make me thin. Ever. So beyond getting my hair cut and being careful about my clothes, I take very little interest in how I look. Most of the time how I interact with people and what I am saying is in the forefront of my mind, not my looks.

Another "witty" product:

Proper man fuel

How hilarious

Kick - I am glad you have found peace and concentrate on the important stuff.

I am kind of taken aback to read a woman describe herself as an MRA.

Well, I am an 'MRA' - I have sons and I don't want them damaged by the patriarchy [subversive]

Quite, Pacific. (I nearly wrote "Quiet", which would be entirely different ...)

I would laugh Pacific. But a woman on MN seriously says almost that.

See I'd rather laugh, than cry.
Which is the alternative .
I despair that the 'sister'hood sometimes.

Still prefer to laugh though...

It helps to talk to other feminists and remind ourselves other women do think like us.

I confessed today to some RL friends that I had posted on a feminist board (not even a feminist forum, just a board on a much more general forum) and they were .
As was I at their reaction as I had always taken them to be quite ?politically aware ?activisty type people ?feminist in their approach to things.

I fear I have either cemented our friendship or they will be backing off slowly .

I am having an early night and no alcohol - it's peppermint and nettle tea tonight

Was it the fact you posted online, or the feminism, though?

I occasionally come across people who're ok with feminism but imagine internet feminism to be strange and terrifying.

Oh no, it was most certainly the feminism - v strange, considering that one of them (now in her early 50s, mother to a 9 yo so like me had come to motherhood rather late in life which is what we bonded over) had just told me she used to be the 'Women's Rights Representative' at her student's union and how she feels women's issues are often marginalised etc etc. But she was talking about it as if it was all in the dim and distant past, like suffrage or slavery; not an ongoing concern.

Ah well, I will see them again next week and we'll see.

I have stumbled across terrifying feminist sites but only because they were full of rather clever and very academic types. I have postgrad degree but I am by nature really not an academic .

What sites did you find terrifying?

That's odd, then. I guess I know what you mean though - my mum is a bit like that.

I definitely know what you mean about scarily academic sites - but I reckon that's true of everything, not just feminism.

Yes, it was more the academia than the feminism that scared me off .

Grennie, in all honesty: no idea, I cannot remember. Random internet wanderings that from googling 'PIV sex' (I had never heard that phrase until I came on here) to who-knows-what.

Like every other area of special interest feminism can have its own language and when one is not familiar with it it can be off-putting.

Which is why I am far keener on 'lived' feminism than the academic side of it, important as it is.