The Feminist Pub is Open - Chat, Rant, or pull up a chair here!

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

This thread started when we all decided to imagine what the perfect local for feminists would be like. So far, it has taps with plenty of good real ale, and some decent non-alcoholic alternatives too. There are comfy chairs and there's a feminist film night, as well as lots of nice feminist-friendly books on the shelves and space to curl up and read. The open-mic nights are attracting feminist singers and comedians, and we're just sorting out the feminist creche.

Please come along, draw up a stool, and have a good chat about whatever you fancy - as serious or as trivial as you like.

For starters, I have a half-pint of lemonade. What can I get anyone?

OMG, past, past it, Murder

I think I should go to bed...

Pacific Thank you. Seem to be, or at least the drugs are working now. I'm taking so many I rattle when I walk Not 100% by any stretch, but able to eat and drink and occasionally leave the flat.

Guess historically (pre-contraceptives) not only were women almost always pregnant or child rearing - btw was formula before or after contraceptives? - so not only busy but often physically weakened/tired.

Oh you all may be amused by this, the doctor reckons I'm allergic to pregnancy - specifically the hormones. Essentially I'm allergic to being female. Biology is bloody weird.

Oh, formula - loooooong before contraception (unless you count Egyption pig's bowel condoms as contraception ).

Read 'The Politics of BFing' - it left me absolutely dumbstruck

Biology IS weird. And has an evil sense of humour...

Why is it that we all have the same hormones but are so differently affected by them??

Congrats penguins and murder and sal.

I am not drinking till the weekend. Elderflower and sparkling water please!

See, it's so complex for my small brain.
I by no means think that having dcs was necessary for me to be defined as a woman. But I have to accept that whilst it is quite the most valuable and wonderful thing ihave ever done, it is also the thing that puts me at a "disadvantage" and means that I am "out of the loop" in economic and social situations.
Thank goodness for this fantastic feminist pub.

Poor murder hope you feel better soon.

I think the whole thing about how many men experience being fathers as having children in addition to their normal lives whereas many women (me included) find it a total game changer, may also be to do with how we react to being mothers.
I am not sure whether it is hormonal or not, but I know I felt physically sick when one of mine was crying for a feed. I knew it would not do them any harm to have to cry for 5 minutes, but it made me feel of stressed and panicky whereas DH was at my reaction.
And this was true whether I FF/BF/mixfed.
I also always heard every whimper from every child, whether it was food/nightmare/wet bed/whatever, whereas DH just snores through it all, whereas he jumps out of bed as if just poked with red hot pokers at the least wee sound outside (he did once chase would-be burglars away just as they were crowbarring our kitchen window open while I slept).

There IS something hardwired into women to make them Good Mothers IMO and IME. Not sure that that is the world's most feminist statement... soz.

That's tough Murder. I hope the drugs carry on working so you don't feel too shit for the rest of your pregnancy.

I think formula has been around in some form or another for quite a long time before contraceptives, but the commercial stuff came about the same time. I know my grandma used a homemade formula for my mum 60 years ago but was using shop-bought formula by the time she had my youngest aunt 20 years later. The pill became widely available at some point in the 60s didn't it? Grandma is quite clear that the pill accounts for the huge gap between her dc4 and dc5 (15 years -24 years betwwen dc1 and dc5)

I agree PD

I will look that up Pacific, thank you :)

Hormones are bloody loopy, they think that's why both DS and DC2 were contraception failures, my body can't cope with the hormones. Severely limits my contraceptive choices for the future, thinking of just getting sterilised.

TheReal I always used to say I never ever wanted children as I didn't want it to be what defined me, didn't want to feel like I had to in order to be a "real woman". So now I have a bit of a confused mess in my head where I adore being a mum and get more joy from it than anything else ever in my life, but feel guilty for that.

I cried at DS's jabs (all of them), and DH looked at me like I'd lost my mind. I also get the whole nauseous feeling when DS is hurt, again DH doesn't. Whereas pre-children DH was always way more emotional/anxious than me, feels odd to have switched.

Is it biology though, or part of the societal guilt of being a mum?

Murder, when the time comes copper coil rocks IMO and IME. Just sayin'.

Night, all. Off to watch some SnowWhite and the Huntsman.

I hated the mirena, found it agonising, is the copper coil any better?

Oxytocin has been described as the "mothering hormone"
Biology is not to be ignored IMO.
That's why life and equality is so complicated.

Have you seen the "bastard Mirena" thread?
Copper works for me. But still would rather he had the snip.

Ok. Dd asleep. Ow so I'm going to try to get some very desperately needed sleep too.
Thanks for the chat, and wine and bourbons.
Night.

My biology isn't so hot, but isn't oxytocin mostly produced in childbirth and during breastfeeding? Because DS has been FF since very early on and I still react differently to DH. Got to wonder how much I can pin that on my hormones?

Good night both of you x

Your biology's sound enough.

Woohoo, turns out I was listening at school (despite the scary biology teacher)

You'd think that the MRAs would have male contraception at the top of their agenda, seeing as the women are always trying to trick men into impregnating them.

Bunny - You really would wouldn't you. The only explanation why they don't is the massive sense of entitlement to consequence and responsibility free sex.

Plus they might lose their pretend reason for walking away from pregnant women.