The Feminist Pub is Open - Chat, Rant, or pull up a chair here!

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

This thread started when we all decided to imagine what the perfect local for feminists would be like. So far, it has taps with plenty of good real ale, and some decent non-alcoholic alternatives too. There are comfy chairs and there's a feminist film night, as well as lots of nice feminist-friendly books on the shelves and space to curl up and read. The open-mic nights are attracting feminist singers and comedians, and we're just sorting out the feminist creche.

Please come along, draw up a stool, and have a good chat about whatever you fancy - as serious or as trivial as you like.

For starters, I have a half-pint of lemonade. What can I get anyone?

Oh, and I seem to have moved on to fennel tea. Yum!

Nah, too tame.
Go with "I'm a feminist so a boy is just out of the question"

Congratulations to new mummys-to-be. I am extremely jealous . I've been trying to persuade dp for about 2 years now that number 3 would be a good idea (it would only be number 2 for him really) but he's not buying it :( I'll have to content myself with the 2 dds I've got and possibly add animals as dd2 gets older, I fancy a house rabbit.

We've been to an open evening for the primary school dd2 will hopefully be going to in September tonight. Dd2 would like to start tomorrow please, she loved it so much she didn't want to come home. I'm taking that as a good sign :) but my baby can't possibly be big enough to go to school

penguins sorry. No withering comments. I am rubbish at them. I go....polite, polite, polite, polite....... Fuck off!
But I think ppl might ask you that, not because a boy is "better" than a girl but because some ppl assume a mix is good. You know,OIf you 2 boys maybe they would ask if you wanted a girl so you could dress her up

IMHO contraception is a deeply feminist issue. I am beyond livid with my dh that he won't have a vasectomy.

Could I have an American Double IPA please? From the fridge. Ta.

pacific I love fennel tea.

Oh I realise people aren't necessarily thinking boy=good. It's the assumption that the type of child I get is primarily defined by the gender.

Yes, contraception is a very feminist issue. There is basically - women deal with it or condoms. At least while you want something reversible. So you would think more men would be willing to take the responsibility later on. Especially since it is such a simple procedure for men compared with women.

I do think that, deep down, maybe a lot of men don't like to cut out their options. That, if the worst happened (wife left them, they ran off with someone new) they might want to do it all again. Whereas women, having shouldered most of the heavy lifting of the early years, are often much clearer that, no matter what, they are done.

I had to google that Nicholas

Ah, DS couldn't quite work out doch either, DP asked his colleague and he said it's when 2 kids are arguing: "Give me the red train" "No!" "Doch!" etc.

I'd only come across it in an app I'm using, in the context "Doch, es ist richtig!" = "But it is right!"

Yes, contraception is possibly the feminist issue. Still .
My choice is to look after our contraceptive needs myself, so a) I can be sure it is taken care of, and b) because DH is younger than myself and IF he ever found himself in another relationship, I'd want him to be able to go for further children if he wanted to.
He is not exactly trying to persuade me to 'allow' him to go for contraception (the relief was palpable when I turned him down the one time he braought it up), but I know if I asked him to, he'd go for it. Good enough for me tbh.

I was really glad when DC4 was DS4 because I would never have wanted DC4/DD1 to think we'd 'kept going' just to make a girl IYKWIM.

I never thought of that penguin, you know, about ppl defining the type of child primarily by gender.

Yes. I have said to him that I think the reason he is refusing a vasectomy is because he wants to run off and have DCs with someone else. He rolls his eyes at me.
Maybe a darker part of me wants to just make sure he can't.
Hadn't thought of that.

Pacific - Even worse, I know a family with three boys and then a girl. The third boy is fairly sure that a) he was a disappointment; and b) his sister wouldn't have happened if he had been a girl.

I don't think it's so much wanting to run off and have children with someone else. But say we split up, the children would probably live primarily with me. I could imagine maybe DH met someone aged 25 and had another family. Whereas for me, I literally could not contemplate beginning again with child bearing. I was at the coal face and he wasn't, and wouldn't be again. Thankfully, I am fairly sure he is up for the snip.

Yy, that scenario has also been on our minds.
Mind you, a girl would've been v welcome at any point. I was really rather unbothered about future children's gender. Had I been blessed with a v pink, princessy girly girl I would've been a bit bewildered though .

Yes, I guess biologically that makes sense. I can see that.

What makes it worse is I've read articles about how male contraceptives have been looked into but abandoned for really arbitrary reasons, not because the science was unsound or they would be unreliable, but just because, well, basically, men are happy for women to stay in control of it.

Yoni- I think sadly a lot of women don't trust their male partners to look after it either. There is always this awareness that the stakes are not as high for a man.

I was rather unbothered by my children's gender too. I think I wanted dd1 to be a girl but geared myself up for a boy so I wouldn't be disappointed if she was iyswim, so much so that when she was born I hadn't even thought of a girls name . Dp was adamant that dd2 had to be a girl though because that's all he wanted, I found myself arguing that I wanted a boy, just so that one of us wanted the gender we ended up with. It's a good job she's a girl because I would have hated to deal with dp's disappointment when I was perfectly happy with a healthy baby.

I was blessed with a girly girl though PD. Dd1 went through a very princessy phase aged about 4. I was a bit bewildered to say the least, I couldn't quite get my head around it. Thankfully she grew out of it and is currently in the midst of her teenage geeky, Manga phase which I'm much happier to relate to. Dd2 seems as if she's about to enter a princess phase now, and I'm dreading it, I don't want to watch Barbie films and Disney princess films again!!.

I wouldn't trust a man to look after it if I was certain I didn't want more. Dd1 was a huge surprise, and even though we'd BOTH cocked up on the contraceptive front (although it was to do with the pill and other medication I was on) his life didn't change at all while mine was turned completely upside down.

Sorry exhausted pregnant women must trundle off to bed. Night all.

I am quite sure if the same time/money/brainpower had been invested into male contraception something could've been come up with.
But I believe the same about time/money/brainpower investment into nuclear vs renewable power

Tbh, since I was a young girl, I have struggled to understand just HOW the patriarchy ever came about: Women have the power to reproduce. Surely that should give women quite a power advantage??

Not when they didn't have the power not to reproduce. Women were permanently either pregnant or in the early years of child rearing.

And men were strong, with swords. And they liked to be sure that their babies were theirs.

Sorry, simplistic. With that I'm off to bed.

I'm expecting as well, and have had so many comments about how if it's another boy then I'll just have to try again. Why??? Even worse when it's from people who know how horrific pregnancy is for me (considered terminating this one because I've been so ill), like I'd put myself through it again over something so meaningless as getting "one of each".

Ahem.. sorry.. bit ragey there.. another virtual Malibu and coke to calm me maybe?

Oh, the Rage is good, Murder. Congrats, I didn't know you were expecting . Are you passed the worst of feeling shit?

So it boils down to women historically being more 'rapable' than men then ? At a time when there was little in the way of contraception (other than abstinence/Natural/withdrawal which IMO = TTC) a woman could always be forced to oblige.

Thank the fuck for contraception, less-than-ideal it may be...

Science is where it's at for feminism and environmentalism then