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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Why is slut dressing cool?

170 replies

Hullygully · 03/10/2013 15:44

I don't get this.

I get that everyone should dress as they like/not be judged on appearance/not be victim blamed etc

I get all that

What I don't get is why women dressing in a way MEN deem sexually attractive: short skirt, tits hanging out, monster unwalkable in heels = empowering.

It's nonsense.

OP posts:
Grennie · 03/10/2013 21:34

Clothing is simply a piece of cloth. I don't care what anyone wears.

But clothing is influenced by our society. We don't freely choose what we wear. And that is even more the case for young women.

MurderOfBanshees · 03/10/2013 21:35

Nice It's a horrible vicious circle isn't it?

Grennie · 03/10/2013 21:36

BBut why are the fashions the type that would appeal to many men?

Yougotbale · 03/10/2013 21:37

Nicetabard - that is mainly because you are conditioned to think that showing your body is sexual and traditionally sinful. You are conditioned by centuries of religion.
Imagine if we had never worn clothes, always naked, how would a naked body look to you if that was the case?

NiceTabard · 03/10/2013 21:42

Yes it really is.

Girls have been rolling their skirts up at the waist at school for decades. Everyone knows this. And everyone knows they do it because that's the fashion, it's what all their friends do.

Yet people can seemingly simultaneously know this, and know that everyone else knows too, and "know" that those girls are no good and if anything happens they only have themselves to blame.

Bizarre. Total cognitive dissonance (is that what it's called?). All in order to blame victims and thus not have to face up to any unpleasant truths.

A good question is WHY it has been the fashion for decades for girls to roll their skirts, to show more leg. Fashions change, but apparently young female skin is always in. Why is showing more skin seen as "grown up" with girls. I think most of us probably know the answer but still it always bears thinking about and being reminded just how bad it is.

NiceTabard · 03/10/2013 21:43

Yougotbale I think you misunderstand my posts Smile

Yougotbale · 03/10/2013 21:50

Nice - maybe. It all stems from religion. Showing flesh is sinful, it's forbidden. I think that without this religious bullshit there would not be this judgemental thread. It's this forbidden mentality that has caused this panic over flesh. As religion has become less meaningful fashion has changed but the ingrained religious view is still there, like a cancer.

Grennie · 03/10/2013 21:52

I don't think it is just religion. I think it is about our male dominated society. We are taught that dressing how most men would like us to dress is fashionable and trendy.

BOF · 03/10/2013 21:55

I suppose that anthropologically, much of the preening behaviour seen among teens and young adults (including boys drenched in Lynx!), is directed towards the search for a mate, isn't it? That is the imperative going on at a very basic level.

The difficulty comes with the cultural arrangements we have developed, the patriarchal society, which overlays all this: women's sexuality in particular is very proscribed. We either look "too sexy", or "not sexy enough", and this judgements are used to control women's behaviour by keeping them in fear of being overlooked and invisible with no real power, or, at the other extreme, of being blamed for provoking rape and violence against them, which again is disempowering.

Until we have thrown off women's oppression, clothing will always be seen as a way of "reading" us, and keeping us in our place.

MurderOfBanshees · 03/10/2013 21:57

Curious about whether in more tribal areas of the world (eg. where nudity is much more accepted) whether there is this idea of "sluttishness"?

BOF · 03/10/2013 21:58

*these judgements, sorry.

I really don't think this is a judgemental thread, btw. It's a discussion.

Yougotbale · 03/10/2013 21:58

Greenie - maybe but what is more damaging the fear of a man or a higher power. I think being religious is the ultimate anti feminist

Yougotbale · 03/10/2013 22:00

Murder - that was the point I was making

BOF · 03/10/2013 22:00

I think it's culturally-specific, Murder. It's just that there are other ways of controlling women in other societies.

MurderOfBanshees · 03/10/2013 22:03

Oh yes, without a doubt, I'd be very surprised to find tribal areas were strongholds of equality!

I just find it interesting that we've ended up with this tightrope between women being expected to appeal to men and yet not be allowed to be too appealing.

Yougotbale · 03/10/2013 22:08

Ok. Why is flesh seen as racy and sexual freedom/promiscuity as taboo?

NiceTabard · 03/10/2013 22:10

BOF yes and I think the interesting thing is where the variation between the sexes is so explicit.

When people see a 15yo boy drenched in lynx with silly trousers on, they see a young person who is trying to fit in, trying to be attractive to people he wants to be attractive to (other teens who he finds attractive), trying to get to grips with sexuality and identity and so on.

When a person sees a 15yo girl doing the equivalent, short skirt, makeup and so on, far far too often they see a sexually knowing individual who is out to use sex appeal for her own ends (whatever they may be) and is interested in attracting sexual comments / contact etc from any man (of any age / looks etc) who comes her way.

Why is this?

There is no equivalent of terms like "temptress" for teenaged boys.

MurderOfBanshees · 03/10/2013 22:11

"There is no equivalent of terms like "temptress" for teenaged boys."

I'd never really thought of that, but you're right, there isn't is there?

Yougotbale · 03/10/2013 22:12

Is it because it would traditionally be something seen in the bedroom, maybe before sex?
What is the main influence over last 500 years that made both flesh and sex forbidden? Religion.
It's too ingrained in society. Having a child out of wed lock was taboo, again religion.

Original poster
Hullygully · 03/10/2013 22:13

But I would say Boffy, that that very pride in sexuality reveals itself in ways dictated by the patriarchy: the lacy bra, the knickers (the leering photographer behind her delighted at her playing into the stereotype while seemingly subverting it).

I don't understand why those clothes (or the string vest thing) are women delighting in their sexuality.

Equally, and dear lord I hope obviously, I am not talking about or have any interest in victim blaming or she's asking for it nonsense etc.

OP posts:
Original poster
Hullygully · 03/10/2013 22:14

Nice, I think we have Cougar and MILF

OP posts:
BOF · 03/10/2013 22:14

Erm, because we use our bodies to have sex, so seeing more of them is sexy? Re promiscuity etc, it has traditionally been tightly controlled so that the men are sure that they are passing on their property to their own biological children. I don't think it's too difficult to get your head round, is it?

I hope this thread stays vaguely on topic. Anything in FWR has a tendency to go off on tangents, and I think the OP has raised an interesting topic.

Original poster
Hullygully · 03/10/2013 22:14

Oh sorry, you mean for the boys themselves.

No, because men of all ages want the young flesh

Women may do, but society pretends they dont

OP posts:
NiceTabard · 03/10/2013 22:15

temptress
lolita
promiscuous (sometimes applied to men but not often)
tart
slut
and so on

Just the idea of thinking of a 14 yo boy as sexually "knowing" because he is wearing lynx and has 2 inches of pant showing is preposterous, and most people in the UK would be shocked I think at the idea of these things being seen as a "come and get it" by older women and older gay men.

When it's 14yo girls and older men though, all bets are off.

Angry
BOF · 03/10/2013 22:15

That was to youvegotebale.

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