Why is slut dressing cool?

[Hullygully]

I don't get this.

I get that everyone should dress as they like/not be judged on appearance/not be victim blamed etc

I get all that

What I don't get is why women dressing in a way MEN deem sexually attractive: short skirt, tits hanging out, monster unwalkable in heels = empowering.

It's nonsense.

Seriously, I think these are interesting questions that I would like to discuss. I am not interested in conflict/defensiveness/accusations because they don't further understanding.

No woman is a slut.

But why do some see "sexy" clothing as empowering? Women as a class do not hold much power in society. Instead they are convinced that dressing "sexily" somehow gives them power. The power to be objectified, leered at, and generally attract male attention, is not real power.

I think the problem with these discussions is that, while it is probably fair to say that "in general" women dress in a certain manner because of societal pressure (be it from men, the media, other women), it can become quite dismissive of individual cases. And can get quite insulting.

It can also tread a very thin line between discussing the context of why people dress that way, and suggesting that there is a right and wrong way to dress. It can also veer quite dramatically into victim blaming with "they're asking for it" comments, which are totally not on!

Also nooooooo not Clarks!!

MrsWoolwitz now THAT i can't answer :)

My DD doesn't necessarily dress with sexuality at the forefront of her mind, she does however look very sexy and often has alot going on in the cleavage department. She is rocking the 50s dress look with petticoats just now so not exactly "slutty", but definately very sexy. She is 23.

When she was a teenager, i would not have allowed her to dress provocatively and would always make cats bum faces at my friends dd who did dress like a 20 year old.

I really think it depends on the individual.

I think we have all made fashion mistakes though when growing up

Mine was definately the spotted ra ra skirt and white sling back stillettos - im not even from essex :)

I did buy a pair of boots from clarks a while back - they fell to bits within a week

LEM - My point is of course we all judge each other. You do it, too, benignly, when you say She looks lovely, or whatever.

It was me that mentioned the word shallow - this is what I said
Nothing wrong with dressing sexy, and expressing that side of yourself. But I do think if that's the only side of yourself you express, well it's a bit shallow. The reason why that is the only side you emphasise is worthy of analysis, I think.

The word slut is a different issue, I think

Grennie - i can honestly say I have never felt that way. I can't say i dress to empower myself either though.

Grennie Talking about power is actually kind of interesting, for me personally (bearing in mind I'm approaching this as someone who dressed more fetish/retro than um.. not) there was a kind of power in it. Though probably more related to my look being shocking instead of skimpy - though it often was.

Wearing say jeans and tshirt with sensible shoes I was just a tiny petite, shy, quiet girl, and a bit of a target. Put me in my OTT clothes and warpaint makeup and I wasn't a target any more. I wouldn't say I was taken more seriously, but I was taken notice of, and I was slightly more in control.

Some argue dressing "sexily", lapdancing, etc is empowering. I was addressing the OP.

And of course how any of us dress is strongly influenced by culture and the patriarchy.

Banshees - The power to shock and confront can feel like power. I remember dressing as a mod and being surprised to see fear in the eyes of some elderly women. Not my intention at all.

But it is not real power.

See - im old now but when i see a woman dressed up to go to a nightclub, my judgement is thus: She is out with the girls, she is going to have a skinful, strut her stuff on the dance floor and do that weird belly dance thing that i saw on big fat gypsy wedding the other night, fall out of the club at whatever time they close these days, cackling like a banshee with her mates, before she staggers off to the kebab shop to buy a kebab that she may or may not actually eat. Then they will all giggle like school kids in the back of the taxi on the way home. Not a man in sight - maybe im niave!

I think the word slut was originally used by bitchy housewives to control women's behaviour re housekeeping

By this time, she wont be wearing the killer heels though - oh no, and she may even lose them

that is true Murder
I personally hope I am not coming across as insulting or anything like that, I just find dress and the permutations of it a fascinating subject - and am a known tactless fool at times

Notdead - i think you are right

It wasn't just fear it inspired though, I was just seen as less of a pushover when all dressed up. People were less likely to try and force me or steer me in to doing what I didn't want. I'm noticing it again quite strongly now I'm too ill to make all that effort, people are treating more like a "little woman" who needs others to decide things for me now.

Hully, if you look at the new generation of feminists on the Slutwalks, the clothing is much more akin to the stuff you might see at Gay Pride- ie the women are being bold and unashamed about sexuality, clearly demarcating themselves as fully autonomous human beings who will dress as they please and refuse to believe that what they wear means anyone has the right to touch them, etc etc.

It's not actually at all the sort of dressing that girls and women round here are regularly seen in: fake tans, nails, hair extensions, vertiginous heels and all that. All that seems to be far more conformist and fashion-driven, but it's at least as much about being seen to be "groomed" as sexy to men. It's more your typical late-adolescent peacock behaviour, and doesn't relate to political consciousness. It isn't really seen as "slutty" either, not to other teenagers. It's just being part of a tribe.

Slut dressing isn't cool.
If you look at what 'cool' people wear, its not slutty.

There are a lot of women who seem to think slut-attire is hot. They are not interested in being cool.

Slut walk is I think very misguided. It sends out the idea that it is okay to call women sluts. I think we should be clearly saying no woman is a slut.

And women dressing "sexily" as many men like, is not in any way challenging or feminist. In fact it is totally buying into what society says our role is - to be there for the benefit of men.

That's a fair point BOF

Most of my "sluttiest" outfits were worn at a time when I'd come out of a really abusive relationship and during a period when I was stubbornly remaining single, but I was exploring my own sexuality in a safe and solitary way. Getting to know myself, my limits, and what I wanted from life/relationships.

To an outsider I probably looked like I was desperately trying to appeal to men, but it couldn't have been further from the truth.

Greenie - you are missing the views behind the clothes. The morals behind the material. Your interpretation of clothing is conditioned, mainly by religion.

I think that for the vast vast majority of women how they dress is nothing more than a reflection of what the prevailing fashions / looks are within their peer group.

Same as for men, TBH.

The real question is why prevailing fashions / looks are always more revealing for women than for men.

Someone mentioned Geordie Shore, upthread. I've only seen it once but the young men on the show were conforming to a "look" and style that looked pretty extreme to me as well.

What gets my goat about all of this is this:

• Teenager /schoolgirl wears very short skirt - 99% of the time because that is the fashion / her friends wear short skirts etc.
• Everyone knows that teenage / schoolgirls wear short skirts as it is the fashion
• Still lots of people pretend that they don't know this, and that teenage / schoolgirls in short skirts are wearing them to attract male attention from any old bloke / because they are sexually available or promiscuous etc
• And some men people use this as an excuse for street harrassment of young women and girls
• And a smaller number of people use it as an excuse for more serious sex crimes
• And then we go full circle where a very large number of people in society buy into the idea that a skirt can "send a message" and "what did she expect" and all the rest of it. Even though everyone knows that the vast vast majority of young women and girls who are in short skirts are not doing it because they want attention (of whatever sort) from random men

Whole thing is ridiculous