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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women and weight.

149 replies

Darkesteyes · 05/08/2013 21:37

Ive just had to hide a thread on AIBU about the 5:2 diet. There are people on that thread who are describing size 12 as fat. Saying that todays size 12 was a size 16 in the 70s.

Sorry. Im just having a rant really Ten years ago i went from a size 28 to a size 12. Nice to know that at a size 12 i was still classed as fat.

Apparently we have got so used to seeing obese ppl around that we now see overweight as the ideal Im just having a little rant Sorry.

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Darkesteyes · 11/08/2013 21:19

Ooh daddy there is NO WAY that the women in the Dove adverts are fat which is what you insinuate in your first paragraph.

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Darkesteyes · 11/08/2013 21:29

Don i think you should check yr privilege just a little.
Its poverty that has a proven link to obesity.
I put on a lot of weight in the late 90s when i was on benefits because i could only afford to eat properly one week out of every fortnight.

i regained some weight between early 2008 and 2010 when we were living on £40 a week after paying rent and council tax.

I am actually looking forward to starting WW this week. If i ever do make it down to a size 12 im sure there will be plenty willing to piss on my bonfire ( you do know that you are actually a 16 Darkest because of the vanity sizing dont you) but as long as i feel better physically and mentally i dont care. Im hoping to step up my excersise routine too. This is a first step to changing my health (finances permitting) (and poss. Gov. cutbacks permitting.

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DonDrapersAltrEgoBigglesDraper · 11/08/2013 21:34

I don't see how they are tightly interwoven.

It's not like people are either fat, medium or slim, right?

How can't they be teased apart? I mean, if someone is slim, they're not going to be the same size/shape as everyone else who is slim. Surely every time you walk out in the world, you see people in all different shapes and sizes - not just fat and slim.

I guess this is just one of those examples where people have their own world view, and they can't see some of the other angles (and I count myself in that, as I struggle to see how fatness (in anyone) is something to be actively defended - though likewise, not something to be mocked).

Darkesteyes · 11/08/2013 21:52

Don it is mocked a lot more than it is defended. Im not the only woman i know who is/has been abused in the street because of her size. Women have stopped going running because of things like this. Why the fuck do idiot FHM/Loaded readers feel the need to shout and harass women in the street when it is patently fucking obvious that the reason we are going out excercising is because we are trying to do something about it.

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BasilBabyEater · 11/08/2013 22:02

Whoever said that mostly fat isn't due to illness, but just to eating too much, is of course right. However, most of women's over-eating tends to be emotional eating and I think it's obviously valid to look at that with a feminist lens.

One of the things which struck me years ago when a colleague of mine was on a diet and brought in all these awful diet magazines, was how many of these "before" and "after" women who had lost loads of weight, had suffered some kind of enormous trauma in their lives, like rape, the death of a parent at a young age, bullying at school, etc., which had led them to self-medicate in that harmless-to-only-themselves way as described by Caitlin Moran. So many of them described their fat as "hiding" themselves.

It's just mindless to say that people are fat because they eat too much. We need to ask why they eat too much and accept that it isn't just because they're stupid and greedy; really, only quite stupid people believe that.

Darkesteyes · 11/08/2013 22:11

Heres the full story which i have discussed often on other threads.

Add message | Report | Message poster
DarkesteyesMon 27-May-13 00:50:46

'feisty'!

My Mother, Misogyny, Marriage and Me.
​ - Anon

Id like to start by saying thank you for this opportunity to speak out about this. I am an almost 40 year old woman currently living in a sexless marriage.

I met my then future husband in 1992 when I was 19 and he was 42. Being quite young I didn?t have a frame of reference for what sex should be like so when it was just basic penetration and nothing else I truly thought that that was just how it was.

In 1996 he stopped wanting to be with me in that way.

I turned to food. I gained a lot of weight. We were married in 1998.

I was brought up in an extremely closed household and as a Catholic ( a religion I rejected long ago) but I was taught growing up that marriage was what you did. I remember a conversation that took place between my mother and me when I was a teen. I was sounding off about things and said I never wanted to get married. She replied ?Well what are you going to do then - become a nun?? The message that was frequently sold to me was that you did one or the other. I was also quite naïve for 25 and on my wedding day I still thought that the situation would somehow ?right itself?.

And I still had sexual feelings for him at that point.

Over the next few years I gained a lot of weight. In 2002 while working in a sex chatline office I started a healthy eating plan while attending a diet class and over the next eighteen months I managed to lose ten stone. I began to feel incredibly lonely. Its not just the sexual act or the lack of it that is missing in situations like this. It is the loss of affection and emotional closeness that leaves the relationship too.

In June 2003 the day after my 30th birthday I started a new job. It was in that job I met Adam. I began to feel very attracted to him and the feeling was mutual. I asked Stuart to go to counselling. He didn?t want to and said it wasn?t worth it.

I began an affair with *Adam which lasted until January 2008. It was the most eye opening, passionate and exciting time of my life. I finally found out what making love could be like and how wonderful it could be.

I once made the mistake of confiding in my mother. I did this after someone else told me ?She's your mother. Shell understand." My mother told me to stop acting like a whore. I explained that Stuart hadn?t touched me for 7 years and she intimated that was because I was having an affair. But at that point I had only been seeing Adam for 4 months.

I now know that the terminology for what my mother was doing is called gaslighting.

Then she began crying and banging her hand on the arm of the chair demanding that I stay with my husband. It was emotional abuse and blackmail. My mother comes from Italy and was brought up in a different culture. Shaming women for fulfilling their own needs seems to be part of the culture. I do realise though that this may be just my experience.

I should also say at this point that Stuart (my husband) is unaware that this conversation with my mother took place even to this day. I continued my affair with Adam.

In 2006 *Stuart had a massive heart attack and nearly died. He spent over a week in hospital. Just after one visit the staff nurse took me aside and said to me ?He does love you you know. In his own way?. It wasn?t until later on that I was told by another professional that this was a manipulative thing for him to do that I started to wonder why on earth he could talk to a stranger when he couldn?t even talk to me. To this day I still don?t know what he said to that nurse.

I broke off my affair with Adam for a short while to care for Stuart when he came out of hospital.

I carried on with this dual life for about 18 months but something shifted with *Adam in that time. He became verbally abusive towards me. He would shout at me and lose his temper out of the blue. I ended the affair in January 2008. Even though there was bitterness towards the end losing such a big part of my life overnight nearly broke me.

I turned back to food and gained back half the weight id lost.

I coped most of the time and became depressed at other times. And 2 years ago came the catalyst.

In 2011 my parents had an argument over a jewellery receipt my mother found in my fathers room. (when I moved out of my parents home in 1992 my mum moved into my room). A realisation dawned on me that I have ended up in a very similar situation to my dad. I've realised that I've fought so hard not to be like my mum that I've ended up like my dad.

I don?t want to get into my seventies and be in that situation.

I became incredibly depressed and joined a social networking site when I saw a thread on there about women in my situation. It is shocking how common this is. I really thought that this was rare and that I was totally alone. There are more severe cases than mine where there is SEVERE emotional abuse if a woman dares to raise the issue of her partner's choice of lack of intimacy. I started posting on the feminism boards of the same site and discovered feminism at the late age of 38. From talking to other women on forums about this and very similar situations I discovered a very sinister undercurrent in society with regards to this issue. It seems that when it comes to intimacy issues, it is almost always the woman who gets blamed whether it is the man or the woman who is losing or has lost interest -- there is an interesting article which I spotted on the Jezebel website just today which touches upon this issue.

Before 1991 it was perfectly legal for a man to rape his wife. Not only is this a horrific and abhorrent crime, just the fact that this was legal before that date proves that men's needs are more highly prioritised than women's. Thankfully this is now illegal but when it comes to men's needs trumping women's not much has changed. There is STILL an assumption in society that women don?t want or need intimacy or sex . This is absolute rubbish.

I am now back where I was before. I have some weight to lose so have embarked on another healthy eating plan. I feel lonely and lost. I have to lock my needs away. The heart attack left my husband partially disabled. So now he can't be intimate but in the ten years prior to the heart attack he didn?t want to be.

The few people that I have confided in tell me im lucky -- because hes not hitting me or raping me. I used to agree with them.

But since discovering feminism I now disagree with what some of my friends have told me. Yes he's not hitting or raping me. But I am supposed to be grateful? Really???!!! There are many women in this situation whose needs are being ignored and sidelined and if we dare to speak up about it we are slut-shamed or told we don?t need sex (as a GP once told me) -- apparently I don?t need sex if I'm not trying to get pregnant.

There are not many platforms for women in this situation to talk safely about this. This needs to change. I cannot talk to my mother because of her attitude towards women which may come from her culture. Last year when the truth about Jimmy Savile emerged my mother said that the victims should be ashamed for going on TV and talking about it. I was absolutely appalled by her attitude but unfortunately not surprised. I have grown up being exposed to this kind of misogyny and victim-blaming all my life.

But now im eating healthily again and seem to have confronted and dealt with my comfort eating. I don?t know what the future holds but hopefully it will involve me being mentally and emotionally stronger.

Thank you for giving me the platform to share these issues and I hope reading this will help other women in similar situations to see that they are not alone

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Darkesteyes · 11/08/2013 22:12

I read Caitlin Morans How To Be a Woman and that chapter particularly resonated with me.

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oohdaddypig · 11/08/2013 22:21

Basil - having been the poster who said people are fat because they eat too much I enjoyed reading that you feel I'm stupid Grin if you care to read the rest of my post, and my others, you will find that I'm not so simplistic as to think there isn't an emotional component. Of course there is.... But getting to the route of that is complex. Emotional problems have scourged us all for decades but the current trend to obesity is really only in the last 20 or 30 years. There is a whole heap of stuff going on.

Darkest - Christ you have had a time of it. Flowers it does sound like your mum has some very fucked up ideas. It really sounds like you are managing to move on from that.

Darkesteyes · 11/08/2013 22:27

Thankyou OOh daddy Looking after my health and weight is just the start. My body and i deserve it.

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FredFlintstonesSister · 11/08/2013 22:35

That is an incredible story, darkest. I feel privilidged that you shared it with us.

Darkesteyes · 11/08/2013 23:03

Thanks Fred Thanks

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BasilBabyEater · 11/08/2013 23:03

Actually I wasn't necessarily thinking you were stupid oohdaddypig, I noticed you were slightly more nuanced than "they eat too much because they're stupid and greedy" - but there are loads of people who really lack empathy, who actually do believe that.

And they're just so dull and stupid. Too tired to qualify that.

Darkesteyes · 14/08/2013 21:35

Well i started WW this evening and i weigh more than i thought 16 stone 8 pounds. I just cant afford to buy deluxe starter packs and loads of paraphernalia but i did buy a pro points calculator and am struggling with it i worked out ribena immunity support is 0 points but i tried to work out a mullerlight yoghurt and because the ingredients are based on 100 grams and the portion is 165 grams i just cant make the adjustment in my head to work out the differences in carbs protein etc. My mathematical ability just isnt up to it It shouudnt have to be this hard surely.

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CiscoKid · 14/08/2013 22:04

Dark, I have never been on benefits, so I'd like to understand your comment that you could only afford to eat healthily every second week. I can understand if you mean that a lack of money means that you have to eat less overall, but did you mean that? Or are you saying that unhealthy food is cheaper?

Darkesteyes · 15/08/2013 00:12

Hi Cisco I could only afford to eat properly every second week So IMO my body didnt know when i was next going to eat so im guessing hung on to what i DID eat.

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Darkesteyes · 17/08/2013 22:19

Well WW is fine for people who can do mathematical division in their head For someone like me who couldnt even get GCSE Maths....not so much.

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CaptChaos · 18/08/2013 01:01

As a small aside Darkesteyes I found WW was only easy if you bought WW food products. SW on the other hand was much better for those of us who have to/want to cook from scratch.

FWIW I was told that I was fat by those close to me for all the years I was playing rugby, doing martial arts, body building, weigh lifting and swimming every week. Now that I have a metabolic problem (which thank the pixies is resolving slowly) and actually AM fat, none of the people close to me mentions it, however, large numbers of people who I don't know seem to think it's fine to tell me exactly how lardy they think I am.

Facebook is providing people with a truly horrifying avenue for pack fat shaming. A quick peruse through some 'spotted' pages shows exactly what people really think of others who are 'traditionally built'. Almost exclusively it is large women who are singled out on those pages for the most vitriolic of abuse. How very dare they make themselves look unfuckable?

I don't think I have the stomach for what some posters on MRA boards have to say about larger ladies. Ironically though, larger men are just fine.... as long as they recognise that they are betas, and therefore, lesser.

Darkesteyes · 18/08/2013 01:44

YY chaos Fat shaming gives me the RAGE
Maybe the reason WW makes it such a faff to work out the points in non WW products is so ppl will give in and buy the WW products for ease because they already have the points on the packaging.
Wow am impressed with all the excersise you have done. Sorry to hear about your metabolic problem.
I have been out fast walking every day since Thursday ( im not up to running just yet and also need to find a sports bra for a 38K bust. it took me an hour and a half the first 2 times but on Saturday it only took me an hour ( i found my old trainers which made it easier.) Its a big old housing estate i live on and i go round the block twice.
Am abandoning WW now They make counting the points too hard It involves too much division when what is ON the container isnt the portion that is IN the container.
Does this sound ok
Portion of two Weetabix for breakfast. 1 coffee.
Two boiled eggs (or spaghetti ) on WW bread for lunch.
Fish (or chicken) and veg for dinner.
Plenty of water

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Darkesteyes · 18/08/2013 01:49

Im an ex gall bladder disease patient. Both me and another Mner went through the same experiences as posted on this thread from page 11.
The posts by RawCoconut were an eye opener too.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1824580-to-think-the-diet-industry-is-utterly-evil?pg=11

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Boosterseat · 18/08/2013 13:17

darkest Amazing post, keeping finding the strength to continue.Flowers

shock absorber bras with a stretchy crop top type bras are excellent for larger busts.

I've never done weight watchers but always found loads of protein keeps me fuller for longer, lots of turkey and lean ham, helps with my strength training too.
100% whole grain bagels with cream cheese and black pepper with she'd loads of salad and some extra lean bacon is my a favourite in my house. Cheap too.

Hand and leg weights you can use at home are low intensity and easy to use, i can do leg raises whilst poking around on MN Grin win win. Improving the muscle tone in my legs really improved my running, it stopped me getting injured when 1st starting out.

Best of luck on your journey Darkest, being physically stronger made a positive difference to my mental strength.

Fast shaming women in the media cattle market is grim, the bizarre result is all those women who have surgery or go on a potentially dangerous crash diet to lose the weight and spend the rest of their time in the spotlight having a public struggle to maintain the new physique. More often than not, sustainable habits haven't formed and its back to square one. I can't see how people can devour this as entertainment? It just feels wrong.

Darkesteyes · 18/08/2013 16:18

Thankyou for your support everyone You have no idea how much it means. Thanks
Went twice around the block again today I only really wanted to go around once but i pushed myself to go round the second time. My left ankle is hurting a bit like a sprainy type pain.
But i guess that could be because im using my muscles more.
I got so wound up and upset last night over the maths involved in Weight Watchers that i thought i would have trouble sleeping. But the excersise seems to be helping with that too. After todays stint i feel a bit better and i can do this without WW help. I now believe looking after myself is what i deserve To quote Lo"real Because im worth it.

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Darkesteyes · 19/08/2013 15:53

Wednesday 21st August:

Welcome to the World of Weight Loss, BBC2, 9pm

Some women visit slimming clubs religiously. And, often, they inspire cult-like devotion. But just how healthy are the likes of WeightWatchers, Slimming World and co? Filmmaker Vanessa Engle decides to investigate their meetings, as she follows the women battling weight loss ? from the sisters who have lost 16 stone to the students who have been on a diet since primary school.

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Darkesteyes · 19/08/2013 15:54

Pulled the above from Red magazines tv picks of the week.

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Nicgianni1 · 11/10/2013 18:18

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