Women and weight.

[Darkesteyes]

Ive just had to hide a thread on AIBU about the 5:2 diet. There are people on that thread who are describing size 12 as fat. Saying that todays size 12 was a size 16 in the 70s.

Sorry. Im just having a rant really Ten years ago i went from a size 28 to a size 12. Nice to know that at a size 12 i was still classed as fat.

Apparently we have got so used to seeing obese ppl around that we now see overweight as the ideal Im just having a little rant Sorry.

Darkest eyes, you are hilarious. I'm afraid the route of English sayings is not my speciality!

I'm not entering into a further debate about the definition of grossly, in the context I used it! I couldn't care what anyone looks like but I care deeply about the health implications of the huge numbers of obese people where I live.

You can eat very healthily without even touching fruit! Grapes are frigging expensive but in season veg is not.

Huge numbers of obese people? And you think they are all just greedy Really?? !!!

Im hilarious because i may be put off excersising because there may be someone like you around.

But hey thats what you want isnt it? You need a group of people you can feel superior to and you have chosen overweight people because its the "safe prejudice"

No - perhaps they might suffer from what you do which appears to me to be a completely negative reaction to any positive suggestion to a change for the better....

Oohdaddypig - you are sadly mistaken, there have been reams written about the links between poverty and a poor diet. Just Google poverty + poor diet and get back to me.

Also, two further points

1)Insulting a women's body is not feminist.

2)Spare us the "Well actually men like..." I do not care if men like women with bright orange hair and green spots, women were not put on earth for men to like.

I have no interest whatever in judging my worth or self esteem by the effect my body has on a man's penis - which is what people really mean when they talk about "what men like".

I lost TEN STONE IN 2002/2003 I know what im doing thanks. And maybe ppl would be more inclined to excersise if they didnt get bullied abused and harassed in the street.

YY Gosh I Dont need that validation either. Even less so as i get older.

Goshanne - I don't disagree with the connection between poverty and a poor diet. What I'm saying is that it doesn't have to be that way. And for that to change requires a whole heap of things including education, school meals, etc. there is a lot of fantastic work being done in deprived areas where I live such as vegetable garden projects and cooking classes.

I'm glad you don't care what men think. Sadly that is not the case for most females. At the end of the day, most people desire to look attractive to the opposite sex in an instinctive way in order to reproduce. And I don't think most men like skinny unhealthy women. But our fucked up society promulgates that view. Who criticises women's bodies the most in the press/media etc - women!! That's what needs to change.

My own goal is to try to have a fit and healthy and strong body and how it looks as a result will fall into place thereafter and is secondary.

It is MEN who criticise and abuse women for their bodies in the street.

Who OWNS most of the press and media that criticises womens bodies MEN

Women dont have to pick up or buy a womens magazine ever again But we do have to walk about going about our daily business and we have a bloody right to do that without being abused in the street.

Ooh - You don't understand - holding up any body type as the ideal is nothing but a pyramid scheme; a small number can achieve it, the rest are encouraged to feel inadequate.

Our bodies come in all shapes, sizes and abilities. We are beautiful in our diversity, not in conforming to an ideal.

I don't think that discussing the huge range of reasons for a person being overweight is all that relevant - it's like trying to distinguish between the deservin and undeserving benefits recipients.

the main point is that women's bodies as shown in the mdeia are hugely unrealistic. Many many ways to tell if a person is a 'healthy weight' are deeply inaccurate (did you know that Tome Cruise has a BMI that ranks him as obese?). Just because we can see how big someone is doesn't give us a right to judge them and think we have a right to know their personal reasons for how they appear.

Why I am overweight is my own business, and I sometimes discuss it with my doctor. It has nothing to do with anyone else.

And do we really have to accept that thin is the only attractive body type? Because even some modern cultures don't accept thin, and prefer fat, so attractiveness is to do with cultural expectations, not some innate Neanderthal hard wiring to seek the best mate.

I think that for younger men there is a greater expectation of having a six pack (eg the scene in Crazy Stupid Love with Ryan Gosling), but by their mid 40s it's OK to see men carry a bit more weight - it almost adds some gravitas. But look at the images of women in that age range. Think about the typical news anchors.

In reality, men are about 10% bigger than women on average - which means that the vast numbers of men and women overlap, yet we have this absolute fixed image that a woman should be smaller than a man, and box office takings are bigger the greater the height gap between a male lead and a female co star.

There's loads to this, but I will shut up for now.

I have another perspective on this I'm South Asian what's interesting to me is why it's such a problem in this country. amongst Asians here in the uk and India being a bit overweight or chubby is not a cause for concern or public ridicule. Actually having a bit of meat on you is a reflection of a persons wealth and even status in society, since poverty and malnutrition is high in India, Bangladesh,Pakistan. But even if someone is not of a high status if they are overweight no one will make comments generally . You may get the odd person but those fools are everywhere. Also weight is related to beauty I'm sorry to say the stick thin types like Kate moss and even size 8s are deemed too skinny hence not so attractive.

So with me putting weight on after kids I don't feel pressure from my immediate family, but I can feel it from society at large and yes it is the media which makes me feel insecure. But what do they know my last baby is only 1years old I'm not a celeb who needs to be back to size 0 in 2 weeks. I will lose weight slowly im in no rush.

Oh, the old 'it's women who criticise one another therefore it's not sexist' argument.

Women police their own bodies, and the bodies of other women, because we are taught from childhood that our worthiness is dependent on how we look. So we absorb that and perpetuate it, as a survival tool in a patriarchal society.

If you believe that sexism is defined as "something a man does and not women" and you also believe that it is important to the conversation to instruct women on what men like then you are also part of the problem. Because the problem is that society defines beauty a certain way, shames women for not adhering to it and then shames women further for even caring. The ideal, of course, being the 'naturally thin' woman who tucks into steak and chips.

It's interesting to me that men are starting to think about calories and whatnot, because one of the (many!) things that always occurs to me about this issue is how much fucking time and mental effort goes into maintaining beauty-compliant standards. Remember the bit in Bridget Jones' Diary when she demonstrates that she has memorised the calorie count in basically every regular food? I can do that too, and I bet I'm not unusual.

I sometimes wonder how much force women could exert on the world if we weren't spending our time calculating calories and straightening our hair and all the rest of the fucking waste of time crap that is expected of us. Oh, but that's a choice? It doesn't feel like a bloody choice. It takes up time, and keeps us in our place.

To be fair to him, my manager doesn't go on and on all the time, but over the years, I have noticed comments. He has learnt not to try and interest me in the gym. There is a bit of competitive weight loss going on with a couple of the blokes.

Also, I am down on him anyway after an unfair review, which we'll have to discuss tomorrow.

Oh, and do go swimming if you are keen on it - people won't be judging. For one thing, hslf of them won't be able to see without their glasses on!

I was on the 5:2 thread and abandoned due to the size slating.
Im a size 10-12 and 5"3 (on a good day!) I go to the gym 4 days a week, eat healthily and take bloody good care of myself.

I weight 10.5 stone which is apparently *huge for my height but I'm toned and muscular.

There is so much shit stirring (and lying!) when it comes to dress size. I used to be 14 stone and was still happy just not healthy. I lost the weight i needed without using the words fat or thin because shape wasn't a goal, my health was and i don't want DS seeing me obsess over my size/shape.

A colleague of mine is always obsessing over her weight, her new diet and crows over others who eat more than her 2 slices of tomato and cucumber. Its vain and quite frankly boring, said colleague was telling us another charming little story about how her gorgeously slim (her words) PFB DD laughs at her next door neighbor because she is tubby - these girls are 6 FFS. So once again I opened my great big opinionated mouth and asked her if she was proud her daughter was a common bully or is that also fucking funny in your house. I got cats bum face back. Pfft. Dickhead.

Taking the piss about someones weight is absolutely no different to sexism,racism or homophobia.

I judge people harshly who bully others to improve their own shit self esteem, being overweight doesn't make you weak being a bully does.

A quote from an article by Anna Motlow in Bitch magazine.

"Fatness is not, as conservatives often claim about homosexuality, a 'lifestyle.' Body size is determined primarily by genetics, and while diets and exercise may produce short term weight loss, they have a 95 percent failure rate over the long term."

What is really frightening is that the extremes such as surgery and liposuction (and my iPad has that word pre-programmed!) also have failure rates of 60 to 100 percent, yet people think that they are a guarantee of weight loss!

Just discovered an article by Dr Charlotte Cooper about fat activism. The article is about books (fiction and non) about fat women, and there's a load of links.

It's on forbookssake.net, which I have just discovered.

Thanks kickass Will take a look at that. Just found this....

Fat profits How the food industry profited from obesity.

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/aug/07/fat-profits-food-industry-obesity

Dress size and BMI don't really mean much though. I think everyone knows their own body and when it feels at the right weight (I don't ever weigh myself but I know for sure if I've been overdoing the crap food just by how I look). I don't care what dress size I am - in one shop it will be a 14 and in the next an 8. It's meaningless.

Intrinsic body size is due to genetics but, medical issues aside, everyone can lose weight if the energy consumed and expended is less than that taken in. So not everyone will be petite - who would want to be - but I do believe that nearly everyone can look fit and healthy and toned.

It's a very personal decision to decide to do that. But I think that it's necessary in order to be healthy and feel more energetic.

To the OP who won't go swimming. That is sad. Anyone whose opinions matter won't even be looking or worrying too much what they look like. And anyone who comments or judges - well quite frankly- their opinions don't matter.

For me, fat is not a feminist issue, it is a serious health issue affecting both men and women.

My DH had a weight problem for years and I used to worry myself inside out about the health risks for him, but sadly, you have to wait until people want to change, you cannot do it for them.

My DH lost weight and it has transformed his well being and health. Honestly, being a healthy weight makes such a difference to someone's life, it is worth the effort.

I used to hillwalk with my DH and he would be red faced and sweating in minutes, while I went slower and slower to take any pressure off him. Now he bounds up next to me, we haven't bought gaviscon in years and his self esteem has sky rocketed.

I guarantee, if you are overweight, someone who really loves you wants you to tackle it, for your own sake, nothing to do with how you look.

I do agree that is is harder for some people to lose weight and some are naturally larger than others - my DH will never be a string bean. But it is not impossible and it is worth it.

Oh i WILL be going swimming (as long as i can find a costume that has proper support for my bust)

And if i get any nasty or derogatory comments i will be writing the experience up on the EveryDay Sexism website and posting it on Twitter to the relevant accounts.

pricey but the real deal
cheaper

Though at a 34 GG I just squish myself into one of the common or garden speedos

Thankyou slug