Feeling a bit let down by 'the sisterhood'

[Hopingitwillallbefine]

I am a new(ish) mum to a dd (11 months) and have just returned to work full time. This was not a decision I took lightly but made for a number of reasons, including the fact that we really need the money for a deposit for a new house and I love my job and have worked hard to get where I am, and would like to continue to progress in my career. My DH also works full time. We are fortunate enough to have reasonable working hours (him 9-5, me 8-4) which mean that between us we are at home with dd until about 8.15am in the morning and from 5pm in the evening. Between 8.30 and 5pm dd is at nursery. We chose her nursery because we loved it immediately and continue to be impressed and happy with the quality and standard of care it offers. Dd LOVES nursery, has made a great bond with her keyworker and seems to have such lovely, fun and full days.

Apologies for the boring details of our life - all pretty normal stuff. However the reason for my post and what has really upset me/pissed me off in the past few months has been the attitudes of other women towards the decisions we have made as a family about working hours and childcare arrangements. I have lost count of the occasions that I have been met with undisguised horror, disgust or pity when I've told female friends or colleagues I am back at work full time. Not all of them, but enough to make me feel like a dreadful mother. Responses like "is there nothing you can economise on so that you can drop a day or two?" Or "god you poor thing, that must be miserable". Even my manager has asked me if i want to consider going part time now I am a mum. Similarly, I have been treated to a variety of unhelpful and at times offensive remarks from friends and colleagues about our decision to use a nursery including suggestions that we are risking our dd developing attachment disorder or questions like "is there no way your family could help?" (No), "wouldn't you at least prefer a childminder?" (No), "have you thought about how damaging it could be if your dd's keyworker left?" Etc etc.

These comments are so frequent that I now have a pre-prepared mini speech when people ask about work or childcare to try and head off all the criticisms and 'helpful suggestions'. What annoys me is the implicit assumption that obviously I am only back at work FT out of absolute necessity and that if there were any alternatives at all I would of course be working part time or not at all as all good mothers should - and to admit that I have chosen to return full time partly because I still give a toss about my career and enjoy being at work is tantamount to declaring that I couldn't care less about my dd. Further, I wouldn't dream of questioning another woman's childcare choices and have been really upset and surprised by how many women seem to think that nursery is virtual child abuse and it is their responsibility to educate me on the reasons why. But finally, and the reason for my post in this section of MN is that all of this, without exception has come from other women. Not one man has made me feel bad about my choices or questioned them in any way. Similarly, my husband, who earns exactly the same as me, has never been made to feel bad about being at work FT. Nobody has ever suggested that he might want to go part time now we have a child.

So I just feel a bit let down by women at the moment. I know it is impossible to 'have it all' and I'm not pretending otherwise, but I would like to continue to pursue my career while providing as much care, love and attention to my dd as I can. I love her more than I knew possible and love spending time with her. I feel genuinely excited every day when I go to pick her up and we have a lovely two hours together every evening after work when I am totally and utterly focused on her. We have lovely weekends as a family and spending time together having fun is so important to me. But I also love being at work and enjoy my day and feel so fulfilled by it. Shouldn't other women be supporting me and encouraging me, isn't this equality and freedom what we have fought for for years?

lol .. I need to stop coming back don't I

This is like some weird addiction

Back away from the mn feminists! > > >

oh come on .. it's what makes forums worth hanging around on .. how many people have been loving you because of me ... even OP is happy now, it was the racism culture comparison that did that .. wouldn't have happened without my unsolicited opinions

It's good to hear this discussion has given you some helpful perspective, Hoping, and given you a boost :) YY, you go kick ass!

Haven't read the whole thread...

We all get comments. As soon as my boy was about 8 months old, I got 'so you'll be returning to work soon?'. Urm, no I won't. If I do it will be part time. I love being a SAHM, in fact it is ALL I have ever wanted to be and do.

Everyone feels the need to comment on your working choices, your breast-feeding choices, your education choices. We can't do anything right.

But V never on m en, do they and that is what we need to stamp out.
In fact I often do ask new fathers - which of you will look afte the child? How did you decide which of you would give up work? Why is it her not you who will reduce your hours? Do you think that i a good thing? If more people made men stop and think about these things we would have a nicer fairer world.

Also if you have worked full time as I have with a lovely family and a lot of children it is worth making it clear to other newer mothers how wonderful it is and how well it can work (never mind how useful all that money can be of course.... given how expensive children are) and how well they can do when both parents work full time.

Either parent being the important words....achieving that fairness between the sexes which is difficult for some women and often works to the advantage of men remains politically and morally important.

It is interesting that it must depend on the issue whether we think shaming someone is fine or not. If you believe hitting children with sticks as allowed in the Bible and Koran is bad then you might well think it's perfectly all right to berate a man or woman who uses implements to beat a child.

If you think racism is wrong you may be happy that I would try to make a taxi drive feel ashamed for voicing a racist comment rather than not commenting to make him feel comfortable. So with some issues we think it's perfectly all right to make the other person feel absolutely rotten because the wider good matters more than keeping everyone happy. I suppose we all decide which issues we put into which category.

Indeed and everyone takes their decisions about (a) whether the follow social norms eg whether to be covered up in Muslim areas or not mention you think women should work or whatever it might be and/or (b) whether to obey even the law if your conscience is against it. For some reason I am thinking about that strange man who walks naked across the country and will not even put his clothes on in court. He breaks social norms but also the law.

Naked guy is showing he "has no shame" (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shame#Narcissism) although he thinks he's calling attention to shame as social control (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_control#Informal.)

In the second link: Informal social control:
Informal sanctions may include shame, ridicule, sarcasm, criticism, and disapproval, which can cause an individual to stray towards the social norms of the society. In extreme cases sanctions may include social discrimination and exclusion. Informal social control usually has more effect on individuals because the social values become internalized, thus becoming an aspect of the individual's personality.

This is an important topic for feminists, due to the exertion of shame, criticism & disapproval over virtually all aspects of our lives.

No society functions without these tools, but we shouldn't underestimate their power. Shame, in particular, is a severe psychological attack (in primitive societies, exclusion can literally be a death sentence.) Any woman who has felt actual shame at having hairy legs or a muffin top, for example (I know I have), could benefit from examining what's happened. So could any woman who's felt morally empowered to judge another's parenting choices, or been judged for hers.

*pops back ... There actually is no law to say you have to wear clothes

Indeed, but if you will cause a breach of the peace then they can stop you. Apparently the police think he will so they stop him. What is interesting is if one culture wants women fully covered - I've been near Kish Island in Iran where women were totally covered on the beach right down to the face and full burkah whilst men were in small trunks. I didn't decide to test my view that nudity on any beach should always be allowed on a world wide basis mind you.....

I think most of us agree some things are objectively wrong even if a culture is happy with them like FMG. Where we all draw our lines varies. I think too many women going part time and not working is very damaging, not as damaging as having your clitoris cut off but still a decision which affects other women and their lives and prospects and can make it harder for those women who want to work full time without an expectation at work that like most women there they will give up work when babies come or work part time. So I can make out a case that it is not just personal choice -like should I wear the brown or the black T shirt today but a decision with ramifications that one (politely) can point out to others.

Parents subject their daughters to FGM because of the intense shame that will be visited on them & their children if they don't. We no longer recognise the type of shame indicated by awrah/omerta/mianzi - total loss of 'face' - but it is still built in to us psychologically. (Not sure if I got all the words right?!) Yanking this particular chain is very cruel, which is why bullies do it. I wouldn't expect other Mumsnetters to be quite as obsessed fascinated by this subject as I am, but it's always worth a thought when looking into common social criticisms of women.

Assertiveness is pretty much the only effective defence against it - better than counter-attack, usually.

Thought-provoking xposts there, Buffy.