Charles Saatchi. Oscar Pistorius, Roman Polanski, John Leslie, Mel Gibson, Charlie Sheen, J Simpson, Jimmy Savile, Chris Brown, Paul Gasgoigne,

[Greythorne]

You know the way whenever we discuss DV, the menz crawl out and start the 'women commit DC just as much as men' routine?

Well, can anyone give me a list of high profile / world famous / Olympian women who have been photographed or found guilty or admitted to DV or sexual abuse?

I don't think anyone can argue that men are the main perpetrators of DV, however there are women who get very defensive, if you dare mention the fact that women-on-men DV does exist (albeit not on the same scale). They act as though it's trying to play down men-on-women DV, and it isn't, it's just merely mentioning that men are sometimes victims. I didn't realise we weren't allowed to talk about that fact.

The most personal experience of DV I have, is that which my older brother went through with his first wife, and I'm not going to bore you with the full details, but her last attack left him close to death. It was horrific.

I have female friends who have experienced DV too, but as I said my brother's experience is the most personal to me, because you know he's my brother, my flesh and blood.

Speaking to a former friend once, we had a discussion about DV, and I said something about my brother. Her response was to say something like, "oh here we go... blah blah blah... men can be victims too. Well boo hoo, maybe so, but women are the victims more often, so I feel for them more than I do male victims." (Now you can see why I said former friends).

Yes it's important to continue to acknowledge that the majority of victims are women, but it's equally important to acknowledge that men can be victims too. And mentioning male victims doesn't automatically make that person an MRA (as sometimes people seem to imply).

I do agree with you Freedom. My own mother( who I didn't live with, thankfully) made my Dsis childhood a misery. She had to phone the police at aged 8 on Xmas day as my mother had tried to stab her H with the bread knife. My sister was taken to a friends house then taken back to her mum the next day. She's only just told me about this and many other incidents and she's 45.

So I too get rather annoyed that talk about violent women can get pounced on.

This article is interesting. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21372875
In break ups it says 21% of women had suffered DV, and 11%of men.

IMO Too many women AND men are suffering.

I would never expect men's experience of domestic violence to be dismissed by the police or in a hospital etc.

however the op was talking about when "we" discuss DV

"we" are a group of mostly women discussing why men as a class are more likely to be perpetrators of domestic violence. Which we know to be true, but for some reason we aren't allowed to discuss that.

it's feminism not whataboutthebloodymenism they've got their own groups they can discuss what they want as they like.

And I'd suggest that lumping in EA with DV suggests we are going to see a continuing spike in female on male reports - particularly as there is an increase in publicity on this.

I believe - although I don't know that - that physical violence is hugely male on female.

Similarly - although I don't know - I also believe that EA components are far less asymmetric.

I also believe where custody issues are concerned far more men will throw EA into the mix to try and ensure better access to their children.

Promqueen yes both issues should be heard and rightly so....but what i dont like is posts that flame. And categorise dv being solely against women...which op imho has....

Male victims are embarrassed and ashamed to come forward...ithey are emasculated enough without ant to be more demeaned attending a police station...

Anyone who has experienced dv is encouraged to go awareness programs to identify tell tale signs of abuse

I have done 2 courses as a victim and some of the things that you learn makes you think,,,hang on i have acted like this before...and it wasnt physical

I think dv programs should be introduced in. High schools so both female and males should spot early warning signs when being in a relationship and hopefully encourage meaningful relationships

Dv has no place in our society x

Also another interesting fact is there are now more convictions based on not just police powers but behind the scenes social workers come in and inform you that if you do not press charges ...your children are at risk from being taken away from you as you are not safeguarding them sufficiently..whether a child is present or not during the abuse...

I wonder ifsocial workers will go in and say this to nigella though...i somehow doubt it

Prom Queen - I totally agree with you, there should be room for both issues to be heard.

ExcuseTypos - I'm sorry to hear about your sister's experiences. My brother's daughter (from his first wife) is 14 now, she was 4 when her mother (who she doesn't see by choice) almost killed my brother, and it's only in recent months that it's become clear what kind of effect it has had on her. It's a horrific thing for any child to go through.

James Brown and Al Green to add to the list.
That's James Brown the singer BTW, not James Brown the hairdresser.

Exactly, WhentheRed. Teflon Men.

I am thinking about the gendered aspect of DV and how it is seen as a feminist/women's issue. Now to be clear and to stop misunderstandings, women at this present time are much more likely to be victims at the hands of men of dv, I am not getting in to the one is worse than another debate.

What would be the response in this scenario do people think:
Government agrees to fund a national DV service with refuges, and 12 step programmes, employment, housing advice, in fact the whole package (Unlikely I know but go with it for a few moments more.)
Since though it is paid for by the government it would have to be aimed at both men and women, making the same kind of provision for both sexes and all sexuality groups.. This would certainly help reduce the stigma and of DV, it would also hopefully raise peoples expectations of what a happy partnership should be, as it would be easier to leave.

However it would also unlink the issue from being about women, not in the way that dv still happens and would probably still happen to women more than men. But if it is the one service open to all, it would preclude discussion about how women are more disadvantaged by dv, the emotional harm of dv specificly to women (As then it would be more likely the experience of DV would be les gendered and more general.

So what would people make of the idea that in order to have the kind of DV services, as well as main streaming of services for those suffering dv, it becomes depoliticised, good or bad?

Promqueen well said...thankfully police now are takung it serious...in merseyside alone there have been 5 deaths in 12-18 mths ...1 was a man...police can act without statements from victims and why this hasnt applied in saatchis case is beyond me as photographs are disturbing...which i think we all agree on.

Whenisred there have been pilot communities built for victims of dv...there is only 1 road in and this is manned by security...i know 1 girl and her children are there and very safe and secure...x

I still think that including EA in DV was a mistake, and one many people will rue.

May not have been clear (No shit Sherlock), if the power for women to claim it as a womens issue was lost, how do people feel about it? Would the benefit of having a proper DV support network be worth the trade. What set me thinking and I would appreciate your views PQ, is the way that discussions about DV DO get sidetracked by talk of "It happens to men to"

A part of how the discussion develops feels much like the discussions about identity in that there is power and currency to be had (Politicle, social, and idealogical) in identifying as the worse of group effected by DV. But in order to have that power and to deploy it in to the wider arguments about how women ARE second class citizens (Again please note I am supporting that claim not arguing it.) needs the claim that DV is an issue that adversely effects women and the life choices they have to be true. So in my fantasy women would still be the largest number but because of universal provision not as worse of compared to other groups.

Ha perhaps I should have one of those and see it it gets clearer, I suspect not though as it is a difficult issue as some of the issues that you and Red point out would need to be set aside and it just be thought about in abstract terms, difficult with this subject, more difficult trying to explain what I mean through the keyboard.

Whenthered
freedom programmes are being offered to men in north west area...dont know about rest of country...

Leigg am not detracting from women at all..as a former victim i believe in equality for all..ppl regargless of gender to not sit and suffer...and if the new campaigns saves just 1 life and raises awareness we will be happy x

WhentheRed - I agree, male victims should access to support services, separate from those in place for women. Such services DO exist.

However, when in 2011 the Government announced a £225,000 fund (which is about half a % of its funding for DV services) for support services for male victims of DV and sexual abuse, two of the most prominent male charities (ManKind and the Men's Advice Line) received no funding.

Yet funding was provided to some DV services, which primarily support WOMEN (including a Women's Aid branch in Derbyshire), who had put bids in saying they were reaching out to male victims too. Not surprisingly, this didn't go down too well, as many question if that money was used for male victim services.

It does raise questions when these services, who focus mainly on women (and there's no problem with that) get funding, but the two main male services didn't.

Tonya Harding, a two-time Olympian, not only conspired with others to physically assault her skating competitor Nancy Kerrigan. But on February 24, 2000, Harding was booked on fourth-degree Domestic Violence assault charges for punching and throwing a hubcap at her then boyfriend, Darren Silver.

Keli lane, former Olympian water polo champion, was found guilty of murdering her baby. Attacking those least able to defend themselves (children), is surely the most abhorrent form of domestic violence!

Josef fritzl, Christian Slater, Ryan O'Neil, Marvyn Gaye, Tom Sizemore, Evel Knievel.

In fact out of these 200 famous names, very few are female. I counted 3 at a glance. There will always be a number of exceptions that prove the rule, but DV is a gendered crime, by men against women.

Never mind famous faces, two absolutely non-famous women, leading ordinary lives, in the UK are murdered by their partners each week. There are no such such comparable numbers of men murdered by their partners.