Charles Saatchi. Oscar Pistorius, Roman Polanski, John Leslie, Mel Gibson, Charlie Sheen, J Simpson, Jimmy Savile, Chris Brown, Paul Gasgoigne,

[Greythorne]

You know the way whenever we discuss DV, the menz crawl out and start the 'women commit DC just as much as men' routine?

Well, can anyone give me a list of high profile / world famous / Olympian women who have been photographed or found guilty or admitted to DV or sexual abuse?

I have to disagree with this idea that women feel okay to be open about DV. It is humiliating and awful to be victimised in whatever way it occurs. There is a myth that victimisation is worse and more shameful or humiliating for men than women in any situation- therefore men are less likely to speak about it.

Most victims of rape/CSA/DV/etc don't tell anyone about it ever - because they feel ashamed, afraid, guilty and humiliated by it. Women don't have any less of these feelings of shame than men. This myth persists because women's social status and perceived value is lower than men, so it is assumed they deserve victimisation/violation as a result and don't suffer as much because of it.

The prevalent misogynist assumption is present in rape conviction rates - male rape victims are far more likely to be viewed favourably by a jury and see their attackers behind bars than women.

And another thing. Men do speak about being victims of DV - frequently when women are arrested for DV it comes to light that the man has been abusive in the past and called the police immediately at a relatively minor infraction perpetrated by the woman compared to his own misdeeds. Also, how about the so-called MRAs who make a point of misrepresenting the prevalence of female on male DV to claim that men as a sex are victimised by women? That bullshit is swallowed whole by people who believe that men are more hurt by victimisation than women.

"I have to disagree with this idea that women feel okay to be open about DV" Agreed. It is not insignificant that it was Charles Saatchi who has made a statement as to what happened in the restaurant and not Nigella.

This is a great blog post about the gendered nature of DV. Debunks a lot of these so called stats quoted by MREs. She does a lot of work in this area and is very knowledgeable. Her blog is worth reading in general.

Geoffrey Boycott

I'm quite shocked to see John Lennon & Sean Connery on the list Wasn't aware of that at all.

The whole thing just makes me so thoroughly depressed.

Bubbles

I agree with every word.

such a cop out...."there are probably loads of men being abused but they don't come forward because it is so humiliating / embarrassing for them"

Whereas women who are thumped, strangled, threatened by their partners are not at all huliliated or embarrassed?

Useful to note here that Nigella did not come forward after the throttling at Scott's restaurant to denounce her sad excuse for a husband. Only once the pics were published and the facts were public did she leave the house. And even now she has not made a public statement.

Could it be that she feels shame, humiliation, worthless that this man strangles her? But now she is being expected to stand up against domestic violence and make a stand because she is wealthy.

Whereas the putative men who are subjected to assault by their wives can't possibly be expected to make a stand.

Rose West and Myra Hindley.

No, the Cheryl Cole one wasn't for the nightclub bouncer, it was on Ashley Cole.

'Before I knew it I was lashing out at Ashley in every way I possibly could,' writes Cheryl. 'I hit him in the face. I couldn't help it. I was shaking him, kicking him, scratching his face, pushing and shoving him like I was a lunatic. [DM link]

namechangeguy

hmmmm, psychopaths both but not known for attacking their spouses. We're discussing DV.

eccelesvet

Oh, I had never read that. She does sound like a lunatic.

Greythorne, the OP said DV or sexual abuse. I think they both qualify under that heading.

namechangeguy

Can't see the difference between being attacked / sexually abused by the individual you are married to and the crimes of serial psychopaths?
Both crimes are horrific but really apples and pears.

Yes I can. I can also read the OP. Did you mean only sexual abuse within a close relationship? Because that isn't how it reads.

I think the whole thread is a bit odd, to be honest, and deliberately designed to provoke an argument. What are you trying to establish? That DV occurs? That men do it? That they do it more than women? That there are simple reasons for it? That all cases are the same? That you have a solution?

No, namechangeguy sadly, it is all too well established that DV occurs . But the MRAs on here are all too quick to point out that DV is perpertrated by women as well as men. Which I am sure it is, on some level.

In the past few days there has been much talk about DV happening in wealthy, celebrity households, ones whose public image are very much predicated on domestic bliss. So, we've got a real life example that male on female DV happens in places where one might not expect it.

I personally am not aware of masses of female on male DV in celebrity circles - which should be happening if DV is as common by women as men.

I would not have thought it was too hard to understand the point of the thread.

Samantha Kidd (Eddie Kidds wife)

but then again you won't get anything close to a full disclosure on Female on Male DV as the supports virtually non existant, although improving.

If people are keen to point out that DV is perpetrated by both sexes, then perhaps it is so we can start a discussion from a more balanced perspective. I am no expert, but I managed to find links to surveys that point to high levels of female-on-male DV pretty quickly. You do not have to be a crazed MRA to point this out.

Most of them stress that although women do get violent, the violence towards women is more serious in terms of the physical harm caused, because of men's greater strength. So, even if the ratio was 50:50 (which it isn't), the outcomes are worse for women in terms of physical injury.

Re the celebrity angle, there have been many pointed out already, but I am not sure it helps us examine the causes much. And surely, isn't that the point of any DV discussion? Why does it happen, and what can we do about it?

I accept that Jimmy Savile probably does not fall into the DV category. More serial predator.

But DV isn't balanced namechangeguy. That is the point. It is gendered. It is mainly perpetrated by men and women and children are mainly the victims.

Joan Crowford

I was going to suggest Samantha Kidd too, though I don't think the trial has happened yet so that's still an 'accused'.

I fully accept that men hitting women is more common and more injurous, but that women hitting men also happens and can also be pretty bad.

However, I think OP that your notion that well known celebrity cases correlates to actual statistics (reported or not) doesn't add up.

A lack of high profile female abusers should not detract from abuse of men, in the same way as the presence of abuse of men should not diminish the abuse of women. It's all bad.

"But DV isn't balanced namechangeguy. That is the point. It is gendered. It is mainly perpetrated by men and women and children are mainly the victims."

Based on the available evidence. In reality we'll never know the true extent.

lets not also forget that although it's probable that Men are the prime users of physical violence DV is also defined as being psychological, something fair harder to quantify.

There is plenty of evidence out there. Women are the ones having to flee to refuges because they are too frightened to live with their partners.

To quote from that blog I linked to earlier about the myth that men are less likely to report:

?It?s harder for men to report, there?s much more of a taboo for men?

Exactly the opposite:

?men are more ? not less ? likely to call the police
?men are more likely ? not less ? to press charges
?men are less likely ? not more ? to drop charges.

Looking at the list, at least Saatchi doesn't need to worry that a record for domestic violence will affect his career

Christian Bale

I said it wasn't balanced. I said it wasn't 50:50. I said that discussing both aspects makes for a more balanced discussion.

And I would ask again - do you want to discuss causes, and possible solutions? Or do you just want to point out that it happens?

I said that discussing both aspects makes for a more balanced discussion. Why does the discussion need to be more balanced? What do you mean by more balanced?

"And I would ask again - do you want to discuss causes, and possible solutions?"

What do you think are the causes and solutions are?

Pointing the issues out and the gendered bias of DV does seem to be required as some are determined to say "well women do it too so why is it a male problem". It is a male problem. It is a major part of the reason why women are oppressed. Naming the problem is essential as so many people want to deny it or ignore it. Without naming the problem, how can you solve it?