Mid-career retention of women - "we need better childcare provision"

[tootsietoo]

This makes me so mad and I need to rant! I've just got round to reading a month old copy of my industry magazine which has a big feature on women in the industry. Several high profile women were interviewed and a feature of the article was that they were praised for having "brought up a family" and created a hugely successful career. One of them said something about needing better childcare. And another lamented the huge problem with retention of women in the industry mid-career. My blood is boiling. WHERE ARE THE FATHERS? Why does everyone assume that it is the mother's job to deal with the domestics? No one ever expects a father to go part time or work more flexibly when he has children or, heaven forbid, actually give up his job to look after them. And the few that do are some sort of god like creatures . Is it a surprise that a lot of women will not make martyrs of themselves by doing 2 full time jobs (if they have the choice - I know lots of women don't and they HAVE to do it all, mostly). How are we going to go about making it a cultural norm for men to take equal responsibility for their children? I am going to make damn sure my daughters know that they have to choose their future partners carefully if they want to have a job and career throughout their life AND children. It is not necessarily all the fault of the men either. So many women (me included) seem to feel they HAVE to do everything. And also seem to choose higher earning or more ambitious partners which gives them less power in discussions about who does the childcare.

Thank you for listening!

Yes, many people can't afford all the childcare which you need for both partners to work ft, especially pre-school. And, for instance, my children's school doesn't do breakfast and after school clubs, and there are very few childminders around so it is difficult to find the wrap around care. If both partners are willing and able to be flexible about their hours and days then it means both can continue a job/career rather than one partner having to give up completely.

By opt out, I mean give up a job which means working in a structured environment where you have to be there at certain hours, perhaps with a long commute too, to work either for yourself or in a smaller or different kind of company where you can choose your hours and days. Often this means giving up status and income, but it enables you to spend time doing other things (caring for children or elderly, volunteering, surfing, drinking coffee on the sofa, whatever) which you couldn't do before.

NiceTabard you are so right. I don't think anyone realises unless they actually have to do it how many hours it takes to do the clearing up/washing in out sorting/cleaning/cooking, quite apart from the constant bloody making fancy dress costumes/going into school for performances/filling in forms all the rest of the minutiae which has to get dealt with.

In answer to the OP I think by demonstration. DH and I have both WOH and SAH at different times. We now do 50:50 or maybe 60:40. For us this is far the best solution so far, the dcs agree. Because this is the environment they have grown up in I hope that both of them will just assume that men and women share childcare.

Tribpot - I find with dads in their 20s all of them either have some flexibility, do pick ups or drop offs or take time off when their children are sick. I dont know any dads in their 20s that dont as the mums are all at work too.

Also there is hardly any work at all involved in running a house if you wotk full time. Probably 4 hours max a week for each person for me and dh that includes all cooking and cleaning etc. Its rare if our place looks messy when we are both working full time.

There is hardly any work involved in running a house if you don't have children.

Which means that when you have children, if one person takes it all on, the other person may genuinely not realise that there is now a lot more being done than there was before.

I have 2 children I personally dont think there is a lot of work as no one is ever in.

I don't think it will ever change until humans can be grown entirely independently of a woman's body, including a breastmilk equivalent that is regarded as better than current formula. Then male & female can be equal in terms of childbearing & raising.

Ideally I want it to be a requirement for every workplace to make potential childcare provisions for each role that can be fulfilled by a person of childbearing age, whether it be an onsite flexible crèche, at a local nursery, agreement with a childminding agency, whatever. Also automatic right to flexible and/or part-time work options if possible for both male & female parents if possible in the work environment. If I had this I would have returned to my career after each DC & not ended up feeling like I am wasting my education (the state paid for most of it) & all the work-based training & experience I got. Are there actually any figures for the costs of women leaving careers & having to recruit in/restructure to cover the loss?

Havent read the thread but child care should be provided by the government.
And agree with OP, women should chose their partners very very carefully.

opt out isnt a great option IMO either.after years training I wanted to participate.not opt out

Idlevice, all parents of under-16s can request flexible/part time working now and the business can only turn it down with a good business reason.

Regarding access to childcare, surely it depends on the commute? Most people prefer to have childcare near home and not take a child on a commute, so how could an employer make arrangements with a local nursery? Also, unless both parents work at the same place, if they share responsibility for pick ups and drop offs, the childcare needs to be near their home.

Also there is hardly any work at all involved in running a house if you wotk full time.

Petey, I have to disagree with you there.

There?s still washing/cooking/cleaning/banking/shopping/DIY/
gardening/other household admin to be done. In no way can it be described as ?hardly any work? just because there are no children present!!

It still eats significantly into time not otherwise taken up with sleeping, being at work or hobbies and still needs to be shared fairly between the occupants of the house.

it only eats time as you a low the task to expand to available time
banking can be done online/phone.shopping online,click collect,cook in bulk freeze
I can assure you we work ft. a home doesn't need that ft attention.no way

I find it the easy tbh. No cooking of food for kids from mon-fri. They get healthy meals so if me and dh want easy stuff then I dont feel any guilt. Nothing to tidy up from mon-fri as no toys out as not in. Shopping all in one go takes half an hour all thats left is couple of washing loads, and checking internet banking now and again.

unless one lives long Leat a home doesn't require ft housewife input
bills etc pay by dd,or online,cook in bulk,and chores ongoing
frankly any task can expand if its given time to.but that's preference not necessity

Whether there is lots of housework or not depends on many factors including age of children, where they are being looked after and by who, working patterns of parents and so on.

Not as simple as yes there's lots, no there isn't.

certainly not as complicated as a home needing full time attention

Housework is easy.

Cooking is easy.

Cleaning is easy (especially if you've employ a cleaner, as I do ).

Tidying up is easy.

Online banking is easy.

Shopping is easy.

Children, on the other hand, are not easy. They are fun, funny, interesting, challenging, but easy they are not. (At least not mine, she says, after managing a meltdown with some success). But I like them and will not have them any other way.

Trying to get children to chip in to do housework is most definitely not easy.

I never said it did. When I was working part time though the house was in a better state than it is now. We're fighting a losing battle at the mo unfortunately, not sure what the solution is! Never mind.

I do shopping banking etc in my lunch break at work, that's no trouble at all.

The children are small though and still at the food on floor / piles of washing / toys all over the place stage which is just GAH! Get in from work and it's like a bomb's hit and I'm probably lazy but bunging on a wash / hanging one up / doing dishwasher / cooking (or variations thereof) is as much as I'm going to do.

And so slowly we sink...

GAH again!!!

Mine are 7 and 9. They clean up after themselves, but they have a lot of growing up to do and it's the keeping-them-on-the-straight-and-narrow that is difficult... On top of that we have two languages to keep up and some musical instruments to learn and some feminist concepts to discuss...

TBH it's not that difficult, but it takes some organising.

Mine are 5 and 1 but they dont have much out in the week as they are out until 5/6pm so they dont make mess really.

5 and 3 here

Mine are here for breakfast and / or after school & nursery most days. The little one in particular is not terribly biddable

Working ft gives me the cash to outsource a lot of the domestic work along with childcare. I have a live-in aupair and she is a godsend.