The invisible men project

[ArmyOfPenguins]

I think it's important that the buyers' choices in prostitution are highlighted and shared. This project was linked to on FB. Thoughts? I think it's a great idea.

the-invisible-men.tumblr.com/

[FloraFox]

And yes the vast vast majority enter into the industry willingly.

Prove that.

[FloraFox]

You can't prove the did so you might want to reconsider what you spout.

I suspect you'll be gone in the morning. Good riddance.

[Tortoiseontheeggshell]

Arsenal, of course you can discuss the decisions of sex workers. On a thread about the decisions of sex workers.

The point - THE WHOLE POINT - of the invisible men project is to talk about the attitudes of the punters.

So, to clarify your post: you defend the right of men to buy access to women's bodies, and your opinion of the punters in the original article is...?

[Catlike]

There is no such thing as a male escort for women. There are some couples out there who'd book a male but there is NO female client base for male escorts. I even once heard about a voyeuristic curtain twitcher programme documentary on escorts having to use actresses to pose as clients of a male escort because there were no real ones (and not just camera shy customers, NO customers).

Women in this country DO NOT pay for sex unless it's as a couple.

[Catlike]

goodsongs the newspaper reporter exposing a prostitute in the media is not an example of feminism in action. It's a standard voyeuristic, judgmental and deeply nasty tabloid article that exists to titillate readers rather than to make a serious case against the exploitation of sex workers.

The News Of The World used to run a similar article every single week. The woman's face would always be photographed and her exact location would always be given. The reporter would always "make his excuses and leave" (my arse. I knew of at least two girls this had happened to who said the guy had paid for sex with them). No interest in the punters, ever. No photographs of them splashed all over the paper.

[FloraFox]

Anyone who can read that link and state that punters are regular guys has a seriously fucked up bunch of male friends and/or no moral compass whatsoever. And I would not use Relationships are a benchmark for normal men either. Most men in RL think punters are sad losers at best and pimps are scum of the earth.

[Catlike]

I felt sick reading the posts in that link. And there are some posters who need to read it.
Im thinking of the ones who are all "cool wifey" about their partners going to red light districts on stag dos both here and abroad.

Those women are such fools. I know I'm looking at what they say through the prism of my own experiences but I honestly believe that there is no way on god's earth that an all male group "visiting" a red light area is just going for a gawp and a giggle.

They will tell their partners that they just had a look, for a laugh (like they were going to the zoo or a freak show ) but they were far more interested in just getting hammered. Or one or two of the boys went for it but they themselves weren't comfortable with that so they just went for a pint and let them get on with it.

Utter bullshit. The way the group bonds is by cheating on their partners collectively. There is tremendous peer pressure to partake and they will always cover for each other. If your partner tells you he's going on a boys holiday to Amsterdam/Thailand/Eastern Europe or to play golf in Spain he's telling you he's going to have sex with other women :)

But it's ok, you can even things up by going on a girlie weekend away where you go shopping or have pole dancing lessons or go to a spa and make yourself look prettier! And you are such a cool wife. He doesn't even have to ring you loads and say he's bored and misses you, just to stop you suspecting anything. You make it so easy for him! You may even be the perfect woman :)

[Catlike]

Flora while I agree that those links are repellent, I have to say that the vast majority of punters are in fact ordinary men.

Before I started work in the sex industry, I assumed that most punters would be the stereotypical friendless loser but that wasn't the case at all. You'd encounter those people as often as you met them in real life, ie with some regularity but they were greatly outnumbered by the ordinary man in the street types.

Most of them looked completely normal and had completely normal social skills. A very high number had wives or partners. They'd often be full of praise for their wives and state explicitly that they were very happily partnered and that while they craved momentary sexual excitement with somebody else, visiting a prostitute was far less dangerous for their marriage than having an affair or ONS would be.

The "hobbyists" - those obsessive weirdos who chat to each other on punting forums - are a different kettle of fish. They have a real sense of entitlement to prostitute's bodies and as I said before, are very resentful of the money that prostitutes make and the power that prostitutes hold over them (there is no greater insult or outrage to one of these men than a prostitute daring to turn him away).

[grimbletart]

A very high number had wives or partners. They'd often be full of praise for their wives and state explicitly that they were very happily partnered and that while they craved momentary sexual excitement with somebody else, visiting a prostitute was far less dangerous for their marriage than having an affair or ONS would be.

Worse in a way than the view that punters have borderline personality issues, or maybe that actually confirms they do. Having a happy married life with a loving wife and still not able to control your dick - jeez that does speak of personality problems i.e. no self control, no concern for your wife as in "what she doesn't know can't hurt her", no empathy or ability to put yourself in her shoes i.e. how you might feel if she went off and hired a man to shag her on the sly. That is a huge personality problem.

[arsenaltilidie]

Tortoiseontheeggshell My view is it's an escort review website. What do you honestly expect to read on a website about guys that seems to spend almost all their spare time and money on prostitutes.
I've just clicked on the actual site and seems the project took the worst comments.
whenthered
I guess the whole 'empowerment' nonsense is a response to the anti prostitute lobby that tries to paint prostitutes as hapless victims.
As for the violence, I meant given the number of men prostitute come across, the ratio of violence people will probably be the same with the ratio in the general population.
Florafox
Proof: google 'Operation Pentameter Two'. It was a massive failure.

Fact of the matter is there are some women that will sell their body and there are some men that will buy their body.
Long as they are safe and not breaking the law, then it's non of our business.

[carmenelectra]

Agree with grimbletart. Some of these men have got borderline personality disorders.

No one in the right mind can honestly think its ok to say they love their wife but have some uncontrollable urge to have sex with prostitutes. And its not that bad as its not really cheating as its not an affair and she won't find out. Everything is hunky dory. Any sane, well balanced individual would not be able to function if they were deceiving a loved one in this way.

Mind you, catlike is probably right in that these are regular men who any of us could be married to. Even more scary that some of us are forming relationships with what we belive are decent men. Truly frightening.

Threads on the lovely grunternet at present are 'what services you really need to pay for' ie ones you don't get at home. And another one where middle ages men are complaining that the woman they have been married to for 20 yrs doesn't really do it for them. What they actually prefer is young women with young fit bodies. Delightful. Some poor women are living with arseholes like that and aint got a clue.

[carmenelectra]

Even more charming- 'has punting saved my marriage?'

[ArmyOfPenguins]

"Fact of the matter is there are some women that will sell their body and there are some men that will buy their body."

Well isn't that neat.

However, men control the industry, older men coerce vulnerable young women into prostitution with promises of love and security, men are the ones buying and therefore men have the greater economic power.
Men decide whether or not they fancy buying sex. They do not usually know, or care, whether the woman is hating it, enjoying it, feels empowered by it, feels disempowered by it, is consenting, is not consenting - unless the manifestation of any of these things add to or detract from their sexual excitement. The women's ACTUAL feelings don't matter a jot. Obviously. The woman is a commodity.

Women are oppressed which means that any choices they make are judged and scrutinized, even those choices that cannot be made freely; choices men make, including genuinely free choices, are excused and their motivations deemed irrelevant. Which is why, in discussions like this, people are very keen to get back to the behaviour of women. It feels almost unnatural to examine the men.

If you think men and women are totally equal, however, then I guess you'll see nothing wrong with those punters' attitudes. Cos they must be fooling themselves, right?

[arsenaltilidie]

How do men control the industry??
older men coerce vulnerable young women into prostitution with promises of love and security, that is utter BS. It does not work that way.

Prostitutes enter into the industry because they can make more money.. Some may feel there is no other choice but to enter into prostitution but thats just another debate.

Do the prostitutes care about the punters as long as they pay?
A prostitutes diary would probably paint similar disregard of the punter's feelings.
Its mutual using of each other.

[AnyFucker]

Would you be happy for men to rent your daughter's vagina, anus and other orifices, arsenal ?

Or perhaps more interestingly, how about your son ? I hear tender young sphincters very much in demand.

[AnyFucker]

I didn't say your daughter couldn't do what she wants. Where have I said that ? Our whole society is based on people "doing what they want" with no thought to wider issues, and look where that got us.

I asked arsenal if he would be so easy come easy go if his own son or daughter felt they had no choice but to let men fuck them for money. He tells us he doesn't indulge his "right" to pay women to service him, so I wondered why he had such a non-opinion as "it's all fine, what are you making a big fuss about"