The invisible men project

[ArmyOfPenguins]

I think it's important that the buyers' choices in prostitution are highlighted and shared. This project was linked to on FB. Thoughts? I think it's a great idea.

the-invisible-men.tumblr.com/

Beachcomber, Bunnylion and Scallopsrgreat, thank you for all the links. I have got so much reading to do! I got called a 'novice feminist' today, and not in a good way. Perhaps they were right!

Minnehaha - Let us step back and take a look at the selling of sex.

Who is doing most of the selling?

Who is doing nearly all of the buying?

Can you see why the mouthings of token "empowered sex workers" and industry shills isn't enough to camouflage the massive power inequalities in the sex industry and the abuses inflicted by that industry?

Do you honestly think saying "Well everything's fine for me" is a good enough response to that?

Anyway, back to men and their choices. Where are all the empowered male sex workers telling men what a good career it is? Of course, we know there's not a market for women buying sex from men, but plenty of men do though. Why don't men empower themselves?

male dominated society - where is it?

oh my sides

hah juliascurr!

to be male and blind to it is a definition of priviledge. how comfortable and conformist.

of course women do not have such comfort in our struggle to be human.

just wanted to say to minnie - as i have said on this thread already, i'm currenly reading "right wing women" by Dworkin. i have read it before but was too young and naive to "get" a lot of what Dworkin says. it is making me very uncomfortable and very very clearly aware that women's choices are never easy ones and that the position of all women within patriarchy is one of compromise and survival. i like to hold onto that and find as much sisterly understanding as womenly possible even if it hurts to look our situation directly in the eye. i hope that makes sense and you see what i mean...

rmott62.wordpress.com/2013/08/07/who-do-you-think-the-punters-are/

Rebecca Mott and Rachel Moran speak very bravely and openly about their experiences in prostitution.

well precisely whenthered.

"kinght in shining armour" syndrome is just a load of chivalristic stroke misogynistic delusional male bullshit.

i doubt you women here need me to explain why. it is obvious from very name of the "syndrome" what a load of male centric crap it is.

The men who buy sex: who they buy and what they know

This study by Eaves has been linked on threads before and is relevant to the 'invisible men' we're discussing here. There are quotes from punters which show the same, very conscious, lack of care for the wellbeing of prostitutes as the Invisible Men project/the field reports on punter websites. They seem to consider prostitutes as sub-human - some even profess feeling sorry for the prostitutes they are using - but they consider their entitlement to use these women for sex as higher than any regard for their (the prostitutes) wellbeing.

The punters are asked what would stop them using prostitutes. The results are:

Being added to a sex offender register 85%
Having your picture and/or name on a billboard 85%
Time in prison 84%
Picture and/or name in the local newspaper 83%
Picture and/or name posted on the Internet 83%
Higher monetary fine 80%
Letter sent to family members 79%
Suspension of driver?s licence 78%
Greater criminal penalty 77%
Car impounded 76%
ASBO (Anti-Social Behaviour Order) 74%
ABC (Acceptable Behaviour Contract) 73%
Community service 72%
Required to attend an educational programme 47%

So punishing the purchase of sex, as per the Swedish model would seem to be pretty effective.

Not only is the so-called "knight in shining armour" delusional, it is a further objectification of a woman to serve a male fantasy of himself. It is clear even from the name of this so-called syndrome that the focus is on the man as hero rather than any real regard for the woman. The benefit he gets from it is a promotion of his ego, he has "saved" this one woman. If he was actually interested in helping women, that would not be traded for sex but would be called "being a decent human being" or "abolitionist".

www.hivlawcommission.org/resources/report/FinalReport-Risks,Rights&Health-EN.pdf

According to page 38 of this report, only 2 punters have ever been convicted in Sweden of purchasing sex. Apparently the women usually refuse to testify against the punters (maybe they are too afraid to give evidence?)

That report is mistaken, style. Sweden's own criminal statistics claim that far more have.

But hey, if just the risk of it is enough to put off 85% of punters, then it's got to be worthwhile.

source?

What's your point?

The point is you should check your sources.

Are you trying to discredit all "pro-prostitution" groups as unreliable?

How about you provide a source from the Swedish government that supports the same numbers?

It's funny how that erroneous hiv report always turns up on these threads. It is wrong. From the Swedish governments own commissioned report:

eight out of ten cases in which buyers of sexual services are prosecuted involve situations in which the buyer has admitted to the offense. When suspects admit to an offense the prosecutor does not generally bring legal proceedings; instead a summary fine is imposed. The majority of offenses that have been prosecuted were committed in the three metropolitan areas. All of those prosecuted between 1999 and 2008 were men, with a median age of 43.

I don't think it is possible that these figures are talking about a mere "2" convictions, do you? It is mathematically impossible to get a figure of "8 out of 10" when you're only talking about "2" prosecutions, is it not?

Furthermore, the number of convictions in Sweden isn't actually that relevant when you consider that surveys of punters in the UK find that 85% of them would find the risk of prosecution/being put on the sex offenders register enough of a deterrent to stop using prostitutes.

Here for the Swedish Swedish government report

So what should the deterrents be to stop women selling sex?

Well, we're concentrating on the 'invisible men' who buy sex on this thread, style. But you could always start a new thread on why women choose to sell sex?

Oh, I see you've already tried that... Never mind!

"your statement is wrong."

Not my statement, the UN Commission on HIV and the Law's statement. Why don't you go tell them?

www.petraostergren.com/pages.aspx?r_id=40716

Interesting.

Could you give a synopsis of the point of that link please, style? I really can't be arsed ploughing through her whole website to try and guess at what your point is? Lovely pic though.