So who went on a

[Leithlurker]

Anti Bedroom Tax march and what one?

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Only on MN would you find someone with a MA claiming to know what 'working class' anything was about.

(She says, as a total hypocrite of a middle-class type who, obviously, can therefore never dare to object to abuse of women when leftie men speak up.)

[IsBella]

Haha

Women: I know a woman who is more qualified than you lot to say where your energies and activism should be focused. She's more working class and more single-mother than you (she can tell via the interweb what class and marital status we are) and she's more of a real feminist than you lot, because she's my friend and will reassure me that my kind of feminism is better than your's.

Now get me a sandwich.

And knock up a few placards while you're about it, there's a demo I've organised with my mates for next week I want you to come and support. There'll be a couple of rape apologists on the podium, but remember that's not important, because working class feminists don't mind being raped, that's a middle class prudish hang-up.

[IsBella]

PMSL



This is here purely for a wind up isn't it?

[SabrinaMulhollandJjones]

IsBella.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Funny, and true.

[lemonmuffin]

'Lefty boy willy-wavers'

When you're debating with men why do you have to bring genitals into it?

Would it be ok for someone to say 'minge waving' or 'tit flashing' for eg?

[IsBella]

Willy-waving is a specific term - it means macho grandstanding. Lefty-boy Che Guevara wannabes are tiresomely prone to it, in between employing terrible sexual etiquette and telling women to get to the back of the queue when it comes to the fight for human rights.

Whereas minge-waving? Tit-flashing? What does that actually mean? It isn't a description of anything is it? Women don't do the equivalent of what lefty boys do - they don't tell their male comrades, that the class issue isn't relevant because the only thing that matters is women's equality. And then set up political parties where men are treated as if they're slightly less human than the women comrades. So that's why there isn't an equivalent insulting term.

Because as in so many cases of wotaboutthemenz, claiming an equivalence that doesn't exist, doesn't work.

[IsBella]

But no, you're right, I don't have to bring genitals into it.

I just enjoy doing so on occasion.

I'm a great fan of genitals.

[SabrinaMulhollandJjones]

Lemonmuffin, if female SWP members were sexually assaulting men, and the female leadership were sweeping it under the carpet, then maybe it would be ok.

[SabrinaMulhollandJjones]

My ds does a lot of willy waving though. I tell him to put it away

[IsBella]

Sabrina, you're clearly not as big a fan as I am.

[SabrinaMulhollandJjones]

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

I like willy-waving. If I had a willy I'd wave it. I sometimes borrow Dh's for the privilege.

However, I agree that 'willy waving' is a faintly derogatory term for blokes thinking the fact they are blokes is the most important thing. Like what patriarchy is all about. Men waving their willies = sign of power. Women waving tits = page 3, women as objects for men.

I am not certain that there's a parallel between the two terms, somehow.

[IsBella]

That is a very good point.

When "tit-flashing" came up, I did think of breast-feeding.

And that of course, is I suppose the nearest equivalent - it's where women may flash a bit of breast not to titillate men, but in order to feed their child.

In other words, to do something that isn't focused on men.

Which is automatically seen as a hostile act - hence the notion of militant breastfeeders.

The very act of doing something with your breasts which doesn't come even near showing your structural power, but is just about feeding a helpless baby, is perceived as the equivalent of a rape threat. (Which is what willy flashing is)

Ooh this thread has got interesting.

Against all the odds.

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

Sabrina, my DSes too.

But their politics are true blue. As long as it's Thomas blue, not Tory blue.

[lemonmuffin]

Okaaaaay then.

Doesn't quite work, sorry.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Nah, I was just thinking about the words ... I'd basically agree with you TBH (sorry Is). Not because they're equivalent terms but because it's more trouble than it's worth to justify why.

But very interesting about tit-flashing and it being defiance when women aren't being objects for the male gaze. I agree with that.

[FucktidiaBollockberry]

There's a good blog post here relevant to this thread

startmeoff.wordpress.com/2013/04/01/shit-we-dont-play-class-v-gender/