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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Hilary Devey

28 replies

Numberlock · 17/03/2013 21:20

Quote from today's Observer. What do you think?

The glass ceiling does not exist. You find a good woman in business and she'll often be better than a man ? the problem is finding them. I can't get any women on my board because women generally put their partner and children first.

OP posts:
Trekkie · 17/03/2013 21:56

Well I think she's talking shit.

Grin
Trekkie · 17/03/2013 21:57

this is after she did a two part documentary about sexism in the workplace - was it last year? Hmmmm.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 17/03/2013 22:17

Just based on that quotation, I'm with trekkie. The writer is either very stupid, because they are discounting the reasons why women might 'put their partner and children first', or they are well aware of those reasons but are being dishonest for the sake of it.

What's the quotation from?

YouMakeMeWannaLaLa · 17/03/2013 22:28

You hear that shit so often 'women prefer family to career'. It's put down to 'hardwiring' (hate that fucking phrase, it means nothing) rather than culture which is so disingenuous and lazy.

And why don't they question why women at the top are 'often better than men', seems pretty clear to me; because they've had to work harder/study more to get to the same point.

Pretty clear to see when you don't have your head stuck up your arse

doyouwantfrieswiththat · 17/03/2013 22:45

In her autobiography she talks about workplace sexism and intimidation , and the issues she had with her partner and her son. Bearing in mind how she describes her own experience as a woman I would be interested to see the whole Observer article, she got to the top but what she went through has destroyed others.

Original poster
Numberlock · 17/03/2013 22:49

www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2013/mar/16/hilary-devey-this-much-i-know

Here's the full article.

OP posts:
LRDtheFeministDragon · 17/03/2013 22:53

I'm more offended by her comment on depression. Not because it's more wrong, I know - I just am. She is trying to be provocative, isn't she? Is her company in trouble that she needs to do this?

doyouwantfrieswiththat · 17/03/2013 23:08

they're soundbites, she's drumming up business for her tv show. She is a very tough woman.

TheSmallClanger · 17/03/2013 23:29

Controversy-seeking missile. She's getting quite irritating now.

Her comment about depression is extremely ignorant.

Original poster
Numberlock · 18/03/2013 00:15

So some women don't enable their partner's career progression?

OP posts:
LRDtheFeministDragon · 18/03/2013 00:18

I don't. I don't mean I sabotage it or anything, but I don't do anything to help. He wouldn't want me to, either.

Original poster
Numberlock · 18/03/2013 00:21

Yes but some women put their careers on hold to allow their partners unlimited hours and travel.

OP posts:
LRDtheFeministDragon · 18/03/2013 00:24

Oh, yes. I think that's common - it's hard not to, surely?

I mean, what is the alternative? One partner or other has to put their career on hold, unless one or both earn over the threshold to afford huge amounts of help. And we know childless women are discriminated against in terms of salary, so it is likely that even before a couple have children, it will make financial sense for the woman to sacrifice her career.

Original poster
Numberlock · 18/03/2013 00:32

But that's surely the reason for why we're in a male dominated society work wise?

OP posts:
LRDtheFeministDragon · 18/03/2013 00:34

Well, I think it partly is, but it's misogyny that blames the women in this situation. We could live in a society where no-one assumes women would bear the brunt of childcare, where childcare wasn't a woman's issue. I think if we did, it would be much better.

Original poster
Numberlock · 18/03/2013 00:37

I think that women need to take some responsibility and perhaps there's some truth in Hilary's statement.

OP posts:
LRDtheFeministDragon · 18/03/2013 00:40

But how could women 'take responsibility', given that we know childless women are judged?

I have no children. It seems possible I will never have children. But it is still assumed by employers, on average, that I deserve to be paid less than a man ... because I might have children and I might give up work to care for them.

Explain how I could possibly 'take responsibility' for that?

Original poster
Numberlock · 18/03/2013 00:47

I meant that a woman with children AND a partner stop it making it so easy for their partners but yes I will get slated won't I...

OP posts:
LRDtheFeministDragon · 18/03/2013 00:50

Well, it's outside my experience and I'm not slating ... but I do wonder if they are 'making it so easy'. I mean, isn't there a point where you simply can't afford to fight?

It's easy for me to say my career matters more than DH's. We don't have kids who depend on us. In the end, it doesn't matter much. But if we had three children, I can see why we might care hugely about money - don't you think?

Obviously it'd be great if that could go alongside promoting women's careers but my hunch is this has to happen on a bigger level than individual couples.

Original poster
Numberlock · 18/03/2013 00:52

Yes I admit I am coming at it from couples where each originally had equal earning potential.

OP posts:
LRDtheFeministDragon · 18/03/2013 00:54

Does that make a big difference?

LRDtheFeministDragon · 18/03/2013 00:55

(Btw, sorry, I am asking this because I don't know, not because I am trying to be combative ... I am falling asleep here so hope that didn't sound rude before.)

Original poster
Numberlock · 18/03/2013 00:59

In my opinion it makes a difference because no one party has less or more to gain when they come from an equal financial point of view.

OP posts:
TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 18/03/2013 02:03

I like controversy-seeking missile as a description!

Will read the article properly tomorrow to comment.

mysterymeg · 18/03/2013 07:16

My career comes before my husband's. When our baby is born I will have some mat leave then return to work full time at which point DH will become a SAHD.

We have arranged it this way as 1) I earn more 2) I am more ambitious 3) he will bea better stay at home parent than I would be. Btw that is not to say he will be a better parent just that he will enjoy being able to stay at home with them more then I would.

I have colleagues who have made the same choices. I think that this is actually on the up. I think that it does depend on finding a partner who is willing to take a back seat career wise. A lot of men are still uncomfortable with the idea of their partners earning more etc.

However if a woman decides that she wants to put her career second to her husband's because that is what is best for her and her family than that is the right decision for her. Every relationship would do this differently I think.

Bit of a rambly post sorry. Still new to posting in fwr.