a question for the men here

[Mitchy1nge]

what makes you think you have anything of real value to bring to discussions about women's experiences and expectations?

obviously some men can make interesting contributions (although those sorts of men don't often announce themselves here) to some discussions but generally, on the whole, everything everywhere else is already pretty saturated in Male Voice so was just wondering where you got the idea from

Thanks sunshine.

Nice to see you back, hully.

math, what you're posting is really interesting - I know you're referring to Ireland but I think maybe it's similar to what seems to be happening here with people feeling (for no especial reason) that they are superior to equally poor/disadvantaged immigrants and feeling they've got to keep pointedly differentiating themselves?

Glad to see you back, Hully. :)

I got a few men to look through this thread to see what they thought and the universal response was Er.....wtf? Many suggested the problem lies in some men wanting to be down with the chicks, but not to the extent of speaking up to the menz. Like, I'll wave my banner, but only if no one is looking.

Tis the very essence, I fear.

I'm a 100% behind Pan. I don't think he's done anything wrong.

Why would anyone want to be down with the chickz on an anonymous Internet site? it shows to me that is what they'd do or they have a poor opinion of men.

Are they fathers?

I'm sure when (I believe) Edward Burke said:

?The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing'

He was aiming it at Internet trolls.

If posters think anything they say on the Internet makes much difference to people holding opposing views they should turn off the Internet and go outside.

your post makes you sound a bit thick dlion

was it intentional?

I have engaged on here with opposing points of view and have changed my mind as a result.

Have more to say, but need a laptop rather than phone to be able to type properly... Brb

I've also had my opinions changed on some matters by online discussion.

I think a lot of minds do get changed via t'internet discourse - I have a few times round here. Maybe Daddelion is referring to the threads round here that do spiral out of control, and the ones that contain a lot of back-biting and misunderstandings, authentic and otherwise.
but thanks for your word of support. Appreciated.

I would also like to thank all the well-read, interesting, intelligent, amusing, eloquent, engaging and frankly brilliant posters who have discussed and engaged and answered posts on here.

Even though it may seem pointless that you are arguing with people who refuse to see the point, or to read what you have written properly, you have helped me to clarify in my mind the difference between the institutionalised and societal oppression of women that is misogyny, and the individual acts (or pockets of) of sexism or discrimination (in any direction).

So I thank you :)

I hope that there are other lurkers out there (and I am mostly a lurker these days) have been similarly helped :)

Gawd I hope this makes sense

I am struggling (genuinely) with why any man would want to hang out on the FWR threads when:

a) They don't think anything posted will change anyone's mind.

So why be here? How pointless is your RL that you want to be even more pointlessly engaged?

b) They don't have any solidarity and won't speak up for the women that are here.

It's just weird.

It's like, Let's go on there and talk shit for no reason and then when something does actually matter let's not talk cos there's no point???

Does ANYONE get it?

Welcome back, HullyPops.

I get you Hully

Back like Arnie

Thanks for welcomes.

Hully, I am suspecting that b) is referring to me, perhaps amongst others? I'd wish I could better explain that bit of the debacle, but I am not sure you are willing to hear it, right now. I'm happy to be accountable for that. And I say that with an 'honest heart', and not to be in anyway controversial. I am hoping you see that.
Am off out with dd and the doggie. Will come back later if it helps at all.

I don't understand the distinction with real life. This is real life, the advice and support offered across the boards is real and genuine. The debate in FWR is challenging and thought provoking. As a woman, to hear a man post that he calls things out in real life but won't on here as he can't be arsed/will be insulted/sees it as pointless is actually something I find quite insulting. It seems to suggest that they come on here as a way of checking that their own life theories are fine or to award themselves a badge for being supporters of feminism when all some of them really achieve is to put women down yet again. And whilst I accept that it may not be intentional for many, that's the actual effect.

So something that affects every aspect of my day to day life is simply something for them to ponder and theorise on. Well, go away and read a book instead. Posting on here doesn't give you feminist credentials. What you say and do does.

quite, blistory

fair words butter no parsnips

Yes I agree with Blistory

Marking my place

I am new to this part of the board. Perhaps coming to these threads for the first time I am more easily shocked and angered by some of what I read here than others who have been slogging away in such debates for much longer.
But I want to say I really genuinely don't get it either. With the attitudes expressed by them why on earth would some me think it appropriate / "helpful" to post on here? why?
With my naive eyes I see it as nothing less than provoking for a man to post breezily "Am off out with dd and the doggie. Will come back later if it helps at all."
That has to be seen in the context of what has gone before on this thread, and in that context well, to me it's provoking.
You regulars have the patience of (female) saints imo.

well as I'm only here for the ruck ( apparently) ....

and am inauthentic

I couldn't possibly comment

Can any of the men please summarise what they have learned from these 34 pages? What do we as men have to offer in here? Because the more I read on here, the more I think the OP is right - we don't add any real value, we merely antagonise, however well intentioned. And I don't say that to suck up. I find myself caring less and less about the opinions of many of the posters on here. I am genuinely interested in what the male posters have learned from the last 34 pages, and whether you will continue to post in this section.

now that IS more helpful...