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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

a question for the men here

999 replies

Mitchy1nge · 29/01/2013 01:01

what makes you think you have anything of real value to bring to discussions about women's experiences and expectations?

obviously some men can make interesting contributions (although those sorts of men don't often announce themselves here) to some discussions but generally, on the whole, everything everywhere else is already pretty saturated in Male Voice so was just wondering where you got the idea from

OP posts:
LRDtheFeministDragon · 02/02/2013 23:38

I think you'll find you're projecting your own mental enclosure on me, beer. Hmm

LRDtheFeministDragon · 02/02/2013 23:39

That cross post gave me the weirdist image of a thinly-veiled nun pan.

But yes, it is a bit confusing, isn't it? To say the least.

LineRunner · 02/02/2013 23:41

Have you finished your bloody thesis yet, LRD?

I got my research grant application in on time

Not sure it'll be approved, though

Maybe next time I'll apply to do a research project on Mumsnet: The Social Topogrophy Of Feminist Discourse As Seen Thorugh The Much More Important Male Gaze After All.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 02/02/2013 23:43

Oh, no, don't ask me that! I'm lying low.

Congratulations on getting your grant app in. I hope it gets approved (when do you find out?).

I think I am nearly there but I've been thinking that for about a year now, so right now my morale is rock bottom. I do think I am pretty nearly done, though.

Gah.

On the plus side, all this talk of nuns and dissolution of the monasteries is right up my street.

BeerTricksPotter · 02/02/2013 23:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LineRunner · 02/02/2013 23:44

March.

BeerTricksPotter · 02/02/2013 23:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LineRunner · 02/02/2013 23:47

I hear in March. Calendrically.

LineRunner · 02/02/2013 23:47

About my research proposal.

Do try to keep up.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 02/02/2013 23:48

Best of luck, line.

beer - it does feel like that, doesn't it? But to be fair to HQ, I don't think they give a flying fuck what any of us say about reinstating posts. It's all a giant red herring.

BeerTricksPotter · 02/02/2013 23:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LineRunner · 02/02/2013 23:51

This is a precis of my research proposal:

LRDtheFeministDragon · 02/02/2013 23:51

But the heart and stomach of a king, beer, and a goady fucker of one too.

BeerTricksPotter · 02/02/2013 23:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Pan · 03/02/2013 00:00

The decisions about re-instating posts are nothing to do with me tbh - it's an MNHQ choice. So I'd ask you few to recognise that, and not malign me for that choice, although yes I expressed support for Fastidia. Maybe I shouldn't have done that?

And LR, I'd already said I was really disconcerted that the swirl seemed to be around myself, something I didn't envisage at all and certainly don't invite. So please lay of the 'self-involved' gibe. It's inaccurate and uncalled for.

hope that's okay with yourselves.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 03/02/2013 00:02
Grin

No need for sit ups. I'm sure a kingly stomach is perfectly six-packed.

LineRunner · 03/02/2013 00:03

Beer, I'd like to think of it as a homage to the invisibilty of women.

BeerTricksPotter · 03/02/2013 00:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mathanxiety · 03/02/2013 01:01

Curryeater

'Narrative identity' exploratory paper outlining a proposed study where the process by which individual and group identity are formed and reinforced in NI.

'Religion and patterns of conflict in Northern Ireland' (Jennifer Todd) A long and social science-political-science-ey look at conflict in NI. The author argues that religious identification, religious practice, cultural markers associated with religious practice and belief are important factors in the formation of community boundaries and a major source of fuel to the conflict.

It is interesting that Daddelion does not apparently see that the discourse on widening opportunity for women can have a profound impact on the discourse of widening opportunity for working class teen boys.

When men identify themselves as members of a homogenous group and see the opposite camp occupied by women, disadvantaged men lose out. The 'whack a mole' theory of opportunity -- that if one group has opportunity then other groups can't have it - is a very counter-productive one to hold, especially for those disadvantaged men identifying themselves as 'men' when 'men' contains a large number of subsets. (Women otoh can identify themselves as 'women' because for them, biology as been destiny for thousands of years and upon biology has been hung discriminatory practices that affected rich and poor women alike. Women's physical role in the bearing and nurturing of babies has dominated their lives fairly equally whereas for men social class has been a far more important determinant of fate).

Discourse on access to opportunity for groups formerly discriminated against (women, ethnic minorities, gays, children), on widening rights, and on rolling back oppression usually leads to productive changes that benefit all, including those subsets of the larger group 'men' who have not benefitted as much as others from being men. How disparate groups choose to interpret the changes that result from such discourse is up to them but shooting themselves in the foot by continuing to self-identify in terms of what they are not despite the demonstrable advantages of following the path of those whom they persist in seeing as 'other' is a recipe for disaster. If they continue to begrudge formerly disadvantaged groups their progress, freedom and increase in material prosperity, and refuse to engage with the process, accept the new reality, and see opportunities for themselves in it too, then they have created a problem for themselves that can only be solved by a re-examination of their own beliefs about themselves and their identity.

Back to NI -- white working class male Protestants who identified with white moneyed-class male Protestants lived in little two up-two down/outside privvy houses just as their RC opposite numbers did but believed they had an innate superiority to them for reasons that were (and remain) completely illogical. The current rage about the flying of the Union flag over Belfast City Hall is a really sad sight to witness. How long will it be before all that energy is redirected to productive forward progress?

forum.hudsonbelfast.com/post/4316/?rp=27&page=1 Interesting, funny in parts. (NI related so a bit of a tangent in many ways)

mathanxiety · 03/02/2013 01:13

...speaking of the dissolution of the monasteries...

BadLad · 03/02/2013 07:34

what makes you think you have anything of real value to bring to discussions about women's experiences and expectations?

obviously some men can make interesting contributions (although those sorts of men don't often announce themselves here) to some discussions but generally, on the whole, everything everywhere else is already pretty saturated in Male Voice so was just wondering where you got the idea from

I sometimes post because I think my opinion might add something. Even if the world is saturated in men's opinions, not all of those opinions are ones that I share.

That said, I try to add something to the discussion, and if I can't, then generally I won't post unless it's to ask a question. So I usually post in AIBU or chat about things which are people's experiences, such as a recent discussion about bill splitting rather than, say, a thread about cervical smears (random example off the top of my head).

Does that answer your question?

Hullygully · 03/02/2013 10:31

I've c&ped this from the other thread because I want things clear (please ignore the irrelevant bits...)

I HAVE SOME THINGS TO SAY.

  1. Thank you for the love and support. I am truly and honestly touched (but you knew that hahahaha) but I am really, but being British and having a moustache am unable to express it in a deep and heartfelt open manner so please imagine.
  1. I was suspendered without warning. About this I will say some subsection things:

a. It was Technically Fair as I had made personal attacks and however justified I felt them to be and however angry I was, I did therefore Break The Rules.

b. I stand by everything I said but do acknowledge I should have addressed the post not the poster to stay within guidelines.

c. I don't know why MNHQ are saying I have been "emailed repeatedly" about PAs becasue certainly to my knowledge I haven't. However, perhaps they went astray or perhaps I didn't notice them. I only mention this as it has been used repeatedly as a get-out clause by some on this thread and I am interested in the accuracy of events.

  1. I say loud and clear: IN ORDER FOR EVIL TO TRIUMPH IT IS NECESSARY ONLY FOR GOOD HUMANS TO DO NOTHING. That is the nub. Not speaking out is cowardice and I say that to the death. And possibly beyond.
  1. I haven't kniited or crocheted since I was 10 and I honest injun cain't do it no more Knotty please don't chase me with pointy hooks...
  1. I love you all (except those I don't) very much. xxxx
sunshineandfreedom · 03/02/2013 11:01

Welcome back Hully Grin

Also, LRD I officially love you forever for quoting The History Boys on this thread. Kudos.

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 03/02/2013 11:11

Welcome back Hully Thanks

This bit of your post is worth quoting ...

IN ORDER FOR EVIL TO TRIUMPH IT IS NECESSARY ONLY FOR GOOD HUMANS TO DO NOTHING.

I wholeheartedly agree.

NicholasTeakozy · 03/02/2013 11:30

Welcome back Hully. Common sense prevails.