a question for the men here

[Mitchy1nge]

what makes you think you have anything of real value to bring to discussions about women's experiences and expectations?

obviously some men can make interesting contributions (although those sorts of men don't often announce themselves here) to some discussions but generally, on the whole, everything everywhere else is already pretty saturated in Male Voice so was just wondering where you got the idea from

dadliion also if you really think that you aren't wanted here... why post here? Yes you can obviously no one can stop you. But if a group who have very little power in the real work just want a place where they can do their own thing and you have the whole rest of the world. Why feel the real need to go where you feel you aren't wanted?

I'm being lazy BeerTricksPotter yes it's a political statement about men and how men seek to have social power over all other men. Not all men are conscious of it but in acquiring the means to live in a competitive society/economy it's a given.

So, I reported DD yesterday, about something he said elsewhere, they said they 'understood what I meant' and they would be 'keeping an eye on him', is this just a standard response?and so is most of this problem with MN because they are not doing anything? Just wondered, as it seems like loads of people have reported him, just looking at the threads.

HG really feeling a little weird about this, I do agree with you, in case you missed it. Just 'cause we don't have the same approach, really doesn't mean I don't agree, I've been part of a number of women rights groups for a few years now, and I'm too exhausted to fight everybody.
I posted a load of links on this thread because I am heavily involved in this area and wanted to give those resources to a few like minded individuals. Like I said Trolls need confronting, I do agree with being vocal, we just disagree about whether Pan is really worth the upset.

Gerof"Now, please can you stand up to dadprancer by using the lyrics of Michael Buble or Barbara Dickson songs." - You try if you know him so well! I don't believe in miracles but I believe in you. If you're right tell him time after time he's wrong. Don't think twice, it's alright!

Now I must admit I wouldn't know a Barbara Dickson lyric if it stood up and looked me in the face.

Perhaps I should have said Boney M. Now I know those lyrics. (I am cool).

I totally agree that men should be more active in telling other men to fuck off when they post the usual sexist shite.

I think AF is absolutely right to point out that it's male privilege in action when men sit around enabling other men to exercise their privilege by their silence, both online and in RL.

Now that it's been pointed out and the men here have been made a bit more aware of it, maybe they'll do it more often?

I wouldn't consider it patronising or "white-knighting" (as MRA's call it), I would consider it a gesture of solidarity.

It is so disappointing that so many men are willing to line up to tell women how we're doing feminism wrong, but are totally silent on the subject of how men are doing being men wrong. But I've got used to being disappointed by men.

I miss Adela of Blois too, he was good.

Still, MoreBeta, I wouldn't complain too much - you got a whole tray of cookies on the thread in question.

There seems to be some misconception that the very, very small number of male regulars posters spend a lot of time on Mumsnet and a lot of time in the Feminist section.

daddelion that kinda got covered upthread

but...no-one expects every bloke to hunt every woman-hating comment down on here

but if you are already on the thread, and actively participating...why not just have a word ?

Thanks for clearing that up re:reporting feministfatale and anyfucker I have been hiding under a blanket in the sitting room waiting for the MNHQ 'copter to roam overhead with searchlights and a loudhailer!

Also I welcome any of the men that are genuinely interested and want to learn about feminism and women's reality. However they don't seem to come along very often on here. Although there are a handful.

sorry rm, I didn't mean to be weird, I did get what you were saying

please ignore any perceived weirdness, I'm mostly all right except when incensed

I thought feminism was about equality, not just womens rights. I don't believe that the OP is a spokesperson for Feminism or Mumsnet, so I shall take it they are just a narrow minded person blowing off steam.

Rarely do men and women actually debate with each other about equality between the sexes, which perhaps is why Feminism and Mens Rights are such difficult issues, especially with our youth, who seem to dread getting involved.

I'm unsure how Feminists expect to reach equality without getting everyone involved. Women suffer discrimination, and so do men, and it will take both to sort it out.

As for bringing value to the forum, I think all humans, regardless of who they are, bring value to this forum, and I feel sorry for anyone who is so entrenched in hatred that they cannot see that.

I don't consider myself a Feminist, but an egalitarian. I see Feminism as a stepping stone to egalitarianism, and so I am here and will not be leaving.

All right Abraham.

No, feminism isn't about equality, it's about liberation from patriarchal oppression.

It's about women's rights because men have never been denied rights simply because they are men.

HTH.

So what is an egalitarian?

sunshineandfreedom

Oh do share, I feel I need a glass or three

HG No worries love, I think we can all relate to feeling incensed at just how unfair all of this is. I feel like I'm beating my head against a brick wall sometimes, and you're right it feels like it's ALL men. (Although my hubby is lovely, so it can't be all of them.)
I console myself with Calvin and Hobbes and chocolate cake.

Egalitarianism is equality for all, and the shedding of old stereotypes and doctrines, such as Men vs Women.

Many men are denied rights, such as young boys who suffer genital mutilation by having their foreskin removed.

More men are in prison than women, and the old doctrine is that "boys will be boys", and as an egalitarian I don't believe that at all. I believe men are let down by our society just as much as women are let down, and it is the old stereotypes that cause this to happen.

I know men who are more like women, and women who are more like men, and many variations in between. And I know most of them have suffered abuse and bullying as a result, be they male or female.

Egalitarians only eat eagles.

and "... favour equality for particular categories of, or for all, living entities."

I'm going to go to sleep before this thread makes me kill myself. With my cat.

I like cats. Cats aren't misogynistic...

clink chinchin

My Calvin and Hobbes quote of the day

'The world isn't fair, Calvin.' 'I know, but why isn't it ever unfair in my favor?'

P.S can I get in on that wine if I pass out C and H quotes and chocolate cake?
Oops, no pic for choc cake, how about biscuits? .

I'm now so confused I have just dunked my cat in the wine. Yum

There are more men in prisons but there are more women in Psych units having committed crimes. Men are bad, women are mad and your point?