a question for the men here

[Mitchy1nge]

what makes you think you have anything of real value to bring to discussions about women's experiences and expectations?

obviously some men can make interesting contributions (although those sorts of men don't often announce themselves here) to some discussions but generally, on the whole, everything everywhere else is already pretty saturated in Male Voice so was just wondering where you got the idea from

This reminds me of staff rooms and x amounts of scenarios at work. Where some moron bloke says something horrible (to me, the only woman in the room) and half a dozen blokes sit there and do nothing but look uncomfortable. Several times one of the bystanders says later 'that was a bit off what x said'. Means nothing then. Say something at the time. Don't just watch me cringe and have to put up with it.

But that will teach me to think that I am equal to them. I am not. Not really. Just humoured and tolerated. And it is an impossible mindset to argue with. Get angry and you are 'strident'. Get upset and you are 'hysterical'. Say nothing and you are 'weak'.

LRD -I see why others disagree. ( and yes you did make that 'end of discussion thing' up). I do think that any discussion about anything is based on a willingness to consider other's POV. I take the view that in many circs, on the internet, it's a waste of time and effort to try to move the immoveable object. Which trolls are, and are usually best ignored. That's a healthy practice and encouraged round here by HQ.

Clear and wise analysis AF.

Don't mean to put ya down AF - but my 6 year old gets this .

(With less reference to cock and a bit more to playground dynamics)

pan, I'm afraid I still feel your posts are quite clearly an 'end of discussion' attempt. If you were unaware that derailing the discussion by re-stating your opinion was likely to have that effect, I can accept it may have been an ignorant effect rather than a deliberate one. But I'm afraid you will find I am entitled to my interpretation.

That is not me 'making it up'. That is me interpreting your post as an attempt to close down discussion. I am allowed to feel this way, you know.

Had a think, little unsure whether to post or not. Totally agree that half the problem is men not supporting us. Kind of a bit British to shout 'coward' though.

Hope some of my links might have shown men participating, and standing-up and being counted 'cause that does seem to help women get what little equality they have.

After all if the suffragettes didn't have men supporting, and standing up with them they would all have been put in insane asylums before they could chain themselves to anything.

Yo nick - acknowledgement of your humanity. (I doubt you're wanting a cookie)

wait till you've been here a while rm...

I have never been that clear on what DD point was apart to support both porn and prostitution. The way he does it is obviously very annoying to some on here but examples of bad behaviour or childish taunting come from all quarters not just from him.

I disagree with DD but I suspect he will take even less notice of me as he is not getting the reaction he wants from the type of person who he wants to provoke in the first place.

great analogy, getorf

BC, 6yo's logic is about my level

it's clean, it's uncomplicated...I likes it

what is a better word than coward, rm?

if you see and acknowledge wrong and say nothing, what do you call it?

yes pan I'm here for a ruck

now you can ignore my points

classic

RM - I agree, I think there are lots of men who manage to be pro-feminist. This is why I don't find it terribly convincing when people make out it's hugely difficult.

I can totally understand why individual posters get discouraged or fed up of repeating themselves, but overall, the picture isn't very inspiring and I do think that's a problem.

Yes to getorf's analogy.

AF 6 year olds rock - they haven't been too socialized yet.

GetOrf ha, ha, loved 'LapDancerLover' ROFLMAO.

I just think it would be quite heartening if the reg bloke posters could sometimes stand up to the trolling twats on here. Men on MN are in quite a minority - I can only think of half a dozen or so non-agenda type men who join in the the board as a whole on both serious subjects and trivial nonsense, and they by and large have been welcomed on here. Would it be so bad for those posters who have been on here for donkey's years and are known to stand shoulder to shoulder with the rest of us when this kind of shit goes on.

Perhaps I am just hopelessly naive.

It's not too much to ask is it, GetOrf ? Since, as has already been said, when women in other areas of MN say stuff like "men are all bastards" there is a chorus of "no, they are not"

Does that go un-noticed by the male posters here ? I don't think it does. I think they just accept it as their due, but not returning the favour doesn't exactly foster effective communication.

GetOrf - but I dont say the same thing over and over again on political threads either. There are also people on political threads just like the MRA trolls on Feminism that annoy everyone. After a while you just have to move on and stop engaging with them.

how about if you said just once

oh shut up you stupid misogynistic arse

and then moved on?

But when will you start engaging with them, in the sense of challenge and clear dismissal?

I'll reiterate, this particular argument is going no where and yet the men are happy to continue to argue it.

You will argue when it matters to you