Been out. It's not pretty out there. My feminist views are challenged tonight.

[dummad]

Hello, just a quickie coz I'm a bit drunk.

I've been out tonight in a bar in town - a trendy bar. Getting to the point, I'm disappointed ladies. I'm disappointed in what I've seen. Why do young women stand around dressed up like a dog's dinners looking bored out of their minds out of choice? I'm trying very hard not to think it, but I'm on the slippery slope of thinking women don't help themselves be taken seriously when they portray themselves the way they do. I know it's about choice and whatnot, but why CHOOSE to look like little fuck toys if you don't have to? Sorry. I just find it difficult to fly the feminist flag after what I've seen tonight. It's like young women don't give a flying toss about being empowered. They all look the same - tarty, vacuous and vacant. ALL of them. Hundreds of them. There wasn't one young lady in the place tonight without a horrendously short skirt on and killer heals. One group got out of the taxi and had garters tattood around her upper thigh. The men in the queue outside hardly batted an eyelid but one was there making sort of animal gestures to them like he was in a zoo. Maybe that's the sort of reaction these girls wanted.

In the bar guys couldn't even be bothered to approach the women by the looks of it. For two hours we were in there and I didn't see any notable, interaction between the sexes. Of course you'll never get a guy complaining about the way the girls look - they just lap it all up from a distance - it's all just laid out for them and saves the entry fee into the local lap dancing club I guess. They don't give a shit. Sluttier the better in their view. Why the hell don't women today backlash against it? I'd understand if it were a few of them like that but it was all of them. I'm sure they're intelligent, well bought up girls as well. So can't blame it on ignorance/ upbringing or whatever. They are a fucking disgrace.

You know what - I want you to put me right. I want you to tell me I'm wrong and there is hope and that women are aspiring for empowerment and campaign that they are respected as equals. It's up to them isn't it? They are the next generation after all. Don't they honestly care about their place in society? Don't they want to improve things like misrepresentation in the media and violence against women and lower wages etc? Don't they want to be taken seriously? Is this what has happened when women are contented? Is this what we choose to be by default? If so, it's no wonder men look down on us.

mitchy you mean one the men didn't know what to do with?

it could happen?

I am in my late 20s and have been married nearly a decade,with two kids.I wear teeny hot pants,skirts etc when I got out.So what? I have worn bikini tops before to clubs and if I want to its up to me.Luckily Im married to a decent man who knows me and my friends just like dressing up and regardless of my clothes I have never cheated.

This reminds me of my friends idiot bloke who wont let her go out in 'slutty' gear but she cheated on him on an occasion she was out in jeans and trainers.Glad I am not with such a judgemental idiot.

Saskia for me, I'd like someone to think I dress elegantly. There's nothing wrong in that. They could be cleaners or bankers. Makes no difference.

I was simply referring to what these guys had said about the type of girls OP had said."

Fine if you choose to dress a certain way, but I just don't get why you care if other people approve. If you like your clothes, if you feel comfortable and confident when you wear them, that's all that matters. The opinion of random men in pubs is meaningless.

Unfortunately I think there are neanderthal men with double standards who divide women into ones you marry, ones you shag. That hasn't changed, since man discovered marriage as a way of owning women and ensuring property succession.

Queme, maybe some of us just don't care if people judge us? If someone judges my dress, why would I want to know them?

Some women are plain nasty, but I don't think it's the ones you're talking about.

Bella if you are consistently atttracting assholes there is probably a reson for it and I doubt its how your dressed.

I don't think people are being mean and nasty on this thread. I think that some posters are being analytical and a tad humourous, wondering why it is that a woman would think being judged by a bunch of random men in a bar is such a big deal.

What I always think is interesting is that men don't get called sluts for having their arses hanging out of their trousers like half of them do these days.

No-one says they are dressing too provocatively.

" I don't think I know anyone who wants a guy to think they look trashy! "

you're missing the point.

the point is. women who dress for themselves aren't doing it so men think they look trashy. they aren't doing it for men at all, or anyone else for that matter. they are dressing to please themselves. if other choose to label it as trashy or whatever that's up to them, but it has no bearing on the person wearing them because she isn't wearing them to get a thumbs up from other people.

I wonder what else random men in pubs could give me advice about ... wallpaper? My finances? Are they like some kind of service? Dispensing advice, one punter at a time.

" I want men to think of me as dressing ladylike and I god to hope the same for my DD. "

why? what's wrong with dressing in whatever you want? does it make me less of a person to wear flats instead of heels or wear no make-up? why is 'ladylike' perceived by some to be the 'best' a woman can aspire to be? why aren't you raising your DD to expect mean to think of her as an equal human regardless of how she looks or what she wears?

"I think some posters on here need to be much more supportive of other women!" totally agree with you there. although i bet we're not thinking of the same posters.

ignorance weighside. can you explain what you mean by this? what posts do you think have been ignorant?

OP - I havent read all this blog but I get the idea that you have had some abuse. I just wanted to say that I agree with the concept of what you say. I can never understand why young women think going out in bikinis makes them empowered I will never know. Please know, you are not alone. My son's girlfriend never goes out half dressed and carries herself in a self confident, happy way. She always says to me she never wants to attract a guy who will just expect a 1 night stand. She says all the idiotic blokes just go for the girls who have their tits and arse hanging out. She's 21 and Im proud to know her.

I know I am old compared to most of you. I was a teenager in the 70s. There were blokes then who knew who to try it on with and who not to but I would hope things had changed. It seems to me that many of the young women of today think that equality means behaving like men and cow towing to their every need. My dad used to tell me keep your self respect, dont get used by anyone. Its a very old fashioned concept I know.

I know I will probably get flamed for this but it is just how I see it. I was driving along a main road the other night and there were a group of girls at a bus stop. One of them had a pair of killer heals on and just a pair of knickers and a vest. I nearly crashed. No parents, no mates, no mirror!

OP -well done for having the courage to open this discussion. In some ways Im glad Im past going to bars in town - at least I dont have to see it, though I know its out there.

Yes Weighside the OP does demonstrate quite well how horrible some people can be.

Weighside Horrid? I see your horrid and raise you a .... beastly

I see this has now turned into a 'fling 1930's style insults' thread

weighside can you explain which posts were ignorant?

Yers, MrsClown your son's gf sounds like a right charmer.

I've never cow towed to a man. Does it matter which bovine you hook up to your trailer, or will any old one do?