Chat thread - come chat, rant, or celebrate, here!

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

With thanks to the lovely timetosmile - here's the new and rejuvenated Chat Thread.

Space to yak on, rant, post any of the good and bad stuff ... just basically any chat that you don't feel fits into a specific post. With a side order of reclaiming the word 'gossip'.

[Sunnywithshowers]

Good coming over Doctrine

Kim that's good to hear. I realise that my teenage years were bliss compared to some others

[AbigailAdams]

Doctrine it is so "othering" and excluding isn't it?

[AbigailAdams]

Men the default, as usual.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

That is really shit, doctrine. Do they even know they're doing it, do you think?

And have a .

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

Thanks all

No, I don't think they do. And the thing is, 9 times out of 10 it is a bloke that people can think of for the role (we have a lot of requirements for a little bit of work for highly experienced people, mostly who we already know, so the cycle perpetuates) so I'm sure there's nothing "unreasonable" about it in their minds.

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

Can I rant again? About someone who has thanked "mums" for their delicious baking and how he doesn't know what goes into cakes because he is a man.

Nnnnnggghhhh!

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Ooh, that is fucking annoying.

I'm not feeling horribly ranty at the moment, just very lucky to be in the UK. My mate has just told me about one of the standard adverts on US TV which involves a woman telling everyone how well her new washing powder helps her wash her husband's shirt.



Sometimes, you just have to detach and play idiot bingo.

[doyouwantfrieswiththat]

Oh yeah I know about cakes, kittens all that shit. But I just can't get my laundry white, it's heartbreaking, what is that washing powder LRD I must know.

[AmandaPayne]

On the confidence thing, yes, I think girls are often raised and conditioned to be modest.

In my first proper job my then boss did me the biggest favour in the world. I had to write my probation review and wrote the way I always had "I think I have been fairly good at X". She sat across from me and told me to write it again and bring it back. She then explained that the boys would not be writing that kind of qualified rubbish. They would say "My strengths are X and Y". She said that I might not realise it, but a lot of men in my pretty male industry would read this probation review in years to come as it would go on my file. And they would take it at face value and see someone lacking in confidence (and it's quite important to be confident in what I do). So I needed to redo. I was mortified. No one had ever told me to rip up a piece of work and start again. Best part of 15 years later, I wish I knew where she was now so I could thank her.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Sorry, doyou, I'm afraid I didn't take in that important point. Vanish is good, though. Seriously.

I hear some people's vaginas bleach their knickers, mind (honest, this is a real MN thread).

[NormaStanleyFletcher]

Oh. Hello. May I join you here?

I read FWR much, but post seldom (learning)

[AmandaPayne]

Not that it's up to me to say since there is no 'owner' of FWR, but certainly a yes from me NSF

[FadBook]

Marking place to come back and have a rant on here about the lack of sports coverage of England Netball team winning not 1 but 2 matches this week. Currently have a 17 month old sitting on my lap not wanting to read MN for some reason

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Please rant!

Hello norma. Pull up an equal-opportunities chair. We have newspapers and everything.

[NormaStanleyFletcher]

Thank you :)

I am watching the food channel - it is Heston B doing the perfect steak and salad, and he has just been to a strip club in the states to see how they cook their steak.



Loads of extended shots of the 'dancers'.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Oh, yuck.

It does piss me off the way that is such a trope. Even when there's a TV storyline about women being abused, they still end up showing the shots.

There's a really creepy parallel Gail Dines talks about, between women's bodies and meat. I assume that's what behind the strip club thing?

[TheDoctrineOfSciAndNatureClub]

What? Strip club? Michelin star cooking? What?

Hi Norma!

[NormaStanleyFletcher]

Because some american told him it was the best steak in the world

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Oh, of course they did. Well, that it explains it all.

It is disturbing this stuff goes past a whole committee of people working out which TV show to make, isn't it?

[TheDoctrineOfSciAndNatureClub]

Amanda, that is a good point. I tend to write my first draft of an email or report, leave it, then come back and firm up all the 'woolly' words (helped with this, assisted with that etc). I read somewhere that men (on average) apply for jobs where they meet 20% of the job spec whereas women (on average) don't unless they meet 80% (or stats along those lines, anyway).

It's one topic on which I do agree with Xenia that women are much more likely not to push for pay rises, big themselves up etc.

I have to write a CV now. This could be a challenge.

[bigkidsdidit]

I'm a scientist and a lot of what you're all talking about, especially Amanda, rings very true. I'm on the Athena SWAN committee in my work, have any of you heard of it? It was an award set up to encourage careers of scientific women, and force change in academic organisations. You apply for bronze, silver and gold awards by demonstrating commitment to women's careers, good mentoring and promotion strategies, that women can reach the top, all sorts of things.

It got a massive boost when a couple of big science funders said they wouldn't fund any uni that didn't have at least a bronze (then) and now a silver It's been a really positive thing in only a few short years.

Anyway, one of things we are noticing is that women spend longer at each grade than men. After applying for promotion they are not subject to discrimination, success rates are the same (we have all the data). But we have a culture of women not being groomed for success, the old boys' club being in place etc etc. Also a MASSIVE problem that women simply do not put themselves forward unless they hit every single spec on the promotion document, while men will go for it if they hit 60%.

Related, the EU funds a lot of science and it is all aimed at 'stars' - there is a big gender gap in applications, as women don't go for them.

[FadBook]

Thedoctorine.. With your cv always put your achievements in figures / percentages etc. I work in HR so for example I've got: Reduced absence rates by 10% in 12 months; recruited and inducted 200 new starters in 5 new stores over 5 months etc.

Pm me If you'd like me to read over it.

[SpeverendRooner]

Bigkids - if women are better qualified when they apply, wouldn't you expect their success rate to be higher, all other things being equal?

It depends on your promotion process, I guess. But I'd be interested if you have a better answer.

[bigkidsdidit]

What do you mean by better qualified? They have had the qualities required for longer, not necessarily more of them

[SpeverendRooner]

You said women didn't apply for promotion until they ticked 100% of the job requirements, whereas men will apply at 60%. I appreciate that that is not quite the same as 'better qualified', but wouldn't you expect someone ticking 100% of the boxes to have a better chance than someone ticking 60%? Or is it that the process doesn't care about boxes ticked as long as at least 50% (or whatever) are ticked? Or something else entirely?