Chat thread - come chat, rant, or celebrate, here!

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

With thanks to the lovely timetosmile - here's the new and rejuvenated Chat Thread.

Space to yak on, rant, post any of the good and bad stuff ... just basically any chat that you don't feel fits into a specific post. With a side order of reclaiming the word 'gossip'.

[UptoapointLordCopper]

Can we chat again?

I've just read Marian Keynes' Sushi for Beginners and felt that I have not been wrong to judge books by their covers. Tell me chick lit gets better than this! Just to prove myself wrong I went and read Cecilia Ahern's The Gift. And that's awful too. Now I have one more Marian Keynes and one more nondescript similar-looking book on the pile (don't know what possessed me to borrow them - I think I'm just trying to read something different but that may just be a great mistake). Tell me a feminist-friendly chick-lit please!

But none of this is quite as awful as Tami Hoag's Still Water. Whatever you do, don't read it.

[AmandaPandtheTantrumofDoom]

Oh god, never come across any decent chic lit. Not read much since I really started getting into feminism about 5 years ago though. It's hideous mostly isn't it.

[UptoapointLordCopper]

I've read Bridget Jones' diary, which I enjoyed but cannot identify with (apart from the P&P plot). Apart from that I haven't read any of these shiny books. Thought I should educate myself. Mistake.

[TheDoctrineOfJetlag]

The Book Group (I think, might be the book club or the reading group) by Elizabeth Noble is decent chick lit - helped by the fact most characters are in relationships that are changing rather than the falling in love bit.

[TheDoctrineOfJetlag]

The Gift is a load of old shite, though.

[UptoapointLordCopper]

I've got The Mystery of Mercy Close by Marian Keyes and The Returned (or something) by Victoria Hislop. Should I read them?

[LRDYaDumayuShtoTiKrasiviy]

Sorry, I like Marian Keyes. But then I like chicklit.

I have a bit of an issue with how it gets a rep for being dumbed-down - it's perfectly socially acceptable to read crime, or fantasy or sci-fi, all of which can be pretty formulaic, but chick lit is beyond the pale.

TBF I don't remember Sushi for Beginners so it may not have been great, but I started off with Watermelon which I enjoyed.

Carol Shields' books got categorized as chick lit when she started writing, IIRC - she is fantastic and extremely well regarded nowadays, but I got into chick lit because I like reading about women's lives, so for me they work well.

[UptoapointLordCopper]

DH and I just had this conversation! I think my objection is not that "chick-lit" is about women's lives. It is that I've picked badly written ones - ones that conforms to all the stereotyping and do not question anything. There are plenty of bad crime novels out there (I love detective novels) but the good ones make you question the issues of justice and human relationship. Good "chick-lit" should tell make you see things you haven't seen before too. Sushi for beginners does not question anything, and makes light of things like depression, etc etc etc. I'll try the other recommendations!

And so to bed. (One day I'm bloody going to read Pepys.)

[LRDYaDumayuShtoTiKrasiviy]

Oh, of course - I didn't imagine that was your objection. I just meant, that's how I came to chick-lit, so my recommendation of Shields is an odd one really.

I think, though, if you don't like how she writes about depression, she may just not be the writer for you, because I think that's her style. She's a recovered alcoholic and has/used to have depression, and I think she's totally sincere, but writes about it like that because that's what works for her.

Anyway, night.

[TheDoctrineOfJetlag]

Victoria Hislop isn't chick lit, is she? I haven't read The Returned but I liked The Island, which was about an old colony for people with leprosy.

[TheDoctrineOfJetlag]

Shields as chick lit? Crikey! Doesn't Lionel Shriver get shiny packaged in some countries?

LordCopper, "You Had Me At Hello" by Mhairi MacFarlane is romance focussed but funny with it.

LRD, have you read Elizabeth Noble?

[UptoapointLordCopper]

Is there a definition of chick-lit?

[LRDYaDumayuShtoTiKrasiviy]

I don't know of one. I tend to think it gets used to mean 'written by a woman, has a pink cover, main character is female, and is not Conspicuously Literary or patently of another genre (crime etc.)'. I think Carol Shields is fantastic. I just read that when she started out, she got pigeonholed. She certainly writes a fictionalized account of a woman writer getting pigeonholed/pushed to focus on male characters not female ones.

Anyway, I got sidetracked and looked at the list of Booker winners. I'm sure it's been done before, but:

2012 - By a woman, main character man
2011 - By a man, main character man
2010 - By a man, main character man.
2009 - By a woman, main character man
2008 - By a man, main character man
2007 - By a woman, woman narrator.
2006 - By a woman, two main characters, male and female
2005 - By a man, narrator man
2004 - By a man, main character man
2003 - By a man, main character man
2002 - By a man, main character male
2001 - By a man, main character man
2000 - By a woman, main characters women.
1999 - By a man, about a man. Nobel prize for literature.
1998 - By a man, main characters men.
1997 - By a woman, two main characters, male and female
1996 - By a man, main characters men
1995 - By a woman, main characters men.
1994 - By a man, man character man
1993 - By a man, main character male
1992 - two winners, both men. All protagonists male IMO.*
1991 - By a man, narrator male
1990 - By a woman, two main characters, male and female (?)
1989 - By a man, main character male
1988 - By a man, two main characters, male and female
1987 - By a woman, main character woman.
1986 - By a man, main character man
1985 - By a woman, main character woman
1984 - By a woman, main character woman.
1983 - By a man, main character man
1982 - By a man, main character man
1981 - By a man, main character man
1980 - By a man, main character man
1979 - By a woman, main character woman
1978 - By a woman, main character man
1977 - By a man, main character woman
1976 - By a man, main character man
1975 - By a woman, main character woman
1974 - two winners, male and female. Both protagonists male.
1973 - By a man, main characters men
1972 - By a man, main character man
1971 - By a man, main character man.
1970 - By a man, main character man (Awarded 2010)
1969 - By a woman, main character man
1968 - By a man, main character man.

The Gathering in 2007 was an outside bet to win, and it is narrated by a woman but centred on her brother's death (I know, you could argue Cromwell is narrating Anne Boleyn's fall in Bring Up the Bodies, but I wouldn't choose to do so).

The Blind Assassin in 2000 includes a novel-within-a-novel which is by a woman about a man.

Both Mantel's books (2012, 2009), and Pat Barker's (1995) are about historical men caught up in important historical events, which I think is relevant.

*Ondaatje gets points for an ensemble cast that includes Hannah, but I reckon Kip and Almasy are the main characters.

The Bone People (1985), though I love the writing, is essentially about how loveable men who commit DV on children can be. So not a total, like, victory for womankind.

[AlpacaLunchYoubringyourbooster]

I don't read a lot of chick lit but I occasionally pick up a Dorothy Koomson when on holiday with my DSM - They have been consistently good, my favorite was My Best Friends Girl. DSM loves Marian so they may be a good recommendation for her fans.

[Woodhead]

I thought "chick lit" was specifically modern romantic fiction with female protagonist.

If it's wider than that (female writer + female protagonist), I like Maggie O'Farrell (After you'd gone/Vanishing act of Esme Lennox) and Sally Vickers (Miss Garnet's Angel/The other side of you).

[UptoapointLordCopper]

The thing that pisses me off so much about The Gift (DON'T READ IT) is the "you will never read anything more profound that this" hype. I'd give it F-- if I have to mark it. (Sorry, in dissertation marking mode already.) Lots of modern art does this too - like the "artist" is the first person ever to think about the ephemeral ethereal whatever quality of life/light/canvas/colour etc. So patronising. (Sorry, recovering from a trip to the Tate Modern - don't get me wrong. I enjoyed it. It's fun. But enough patronising already.)

I guess I'm thinking of chick-lit as something quite light (but not rubbish), but not quite specifically romantic fiction. Hmm. Must think about what I mean and what I expect.

[ModeratelyObvious]

Can somebody press the "HIDE AIBU" button for me then get me a large gin?

[CaptChaos]

I made the mistake of going to have a look Moderately

Poor namechange and her family. Yet people still arguing for the names of accused rapists to be sacrosanct.

I do wonder whether society will ever give a shit about victims of rape?

[ModeratelyObvious]

There's another one about interviewing for a job whilst pregnant too.

Sometimes I e

[ModeratelyObvious]

Sometimes I just want to give up and stockpile the Bombay Sapphire.

[UptoapointLordCopper]

Bump!

Are we still ranting and chatting? I have a lot I want to rant about but it might out me.

So this is a pointless post after all! I might just have a .

[ModeratelyObvious]

Rant away or drink away!

[UptoapointLordCopper]

Can't give details. Suffice to say that I'm exhausted, and shouted at my kids (though for good reasons but I could have handled it differently) and it's just going to get worse till Christmas.

I do need a drink, but I have a sore throat now from shouting.

[ModeratelyObvious]

[UptoapointLordCopper]

Thank you. I've had a couple of . > Lightweight these days.