Chat thread - come chat, rant, or celebrate, here!

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

With thanks to the lovely timetosmile - here's the new and rejuvenated Chat Thread.

Space to yak on, rant, post any of the good and bad stuff ... just basically any chat that you don't feel fits into a specific post. With a side order of reclaiming the word 'gossip'.

[pookamoo]

It's hard though, I don't really want to be labelled as "One Of Those Mothers" after the first day, when we have (hopefully) many more years at the school.

[TheDoctrineOfSciAndNatureClub]

I am looking at the box of a toy I had as a child (late 70s)

It is the Fisher Price "Play Family" house - on one end of the box, a boy and girl are playing with it, on the other a girl is holding it and the main picture is a child of indeterminate gender.

None of it is pink. Even the mum and daughter outfits are blue.

[TheDoctrineOfSciAndNatureClub]

Arse. I am upstairs at my parents crying because my uncle (who loves to have a go) got all niggly and sexist on me in front of my DSes. And what makes it worse is that I know he'll be judging me more for being weak and going off crying.

Nil points for me today then

[TerrariaMum]

That's something that really really gets to me. Why the frell (am trying to clean up language cos 2 yo DD repeats things) is crying/having feelings seen as weak?

[UptoapointLordCopper]

I also hate this crying=weak business, especially when it is tears of rage. and for you doctrine. Really, would they rather we bash them over the head to show how bloody strong and angry we are!? No wonder the world is in such a mess.

DS2 was crying out of frustration today (complicated Lego construction kept breaking). I told him to cry until he was not too angry any more and then start the construction again. Is that the right advice? Anyone has any better advice for dealing with frustration?

[TheDoctrineOfSciAndNatureClub]

Thanks both! I did once have it out with my first boss, pointing our that unlike my make colleagues, i didn't turn the air blue when the client was being a total wanker unreasonable but that the emotion was exactly the same.

[UptoapointLordCopper]

Doctrine - I just posted on another thread which reminded me about women being angry. It seems that generally a woman's emotional reaction is attributed to her character - "she is an angry person" - and a man's emotional reaction is, well, just that - a reaction to external circumstances. This was in the last issue of New Scientist. Also in delusion of gender, if I remember correctly. Interesting, eh?

[Slurpling]

Have been thinking about this since last night: was on world of warcraft in a group and out of NOWHERE some guy pipes up: "most annoying shit - listening to gf moan on phone" someone else asks "why listen" and he replies "no listen, no sex lol" and I was sat there like HFFFRRRRGGGRR. To my mind there is no point in doing what I am often advised to do when I see this kind of bollocks which is ignore it because they are kids who don't know any better. Jesus! if he is old enough to sleep with her he is old enough to treat women like people :( I realise this is a little immature of me but I may have cast tricks of the trade on him and got him killed for a minute so he could listen to his gf properly.

and now I'm thinking do I still want to play a game where this kind of stuff is ignored / tolerated / 'part of the culture' (bollocks)? am I overreacting?

have been looking for a new WoW guild recently and they all seem to have the disclaimer 'not for the easily offended' sorry but I AM easily offended by offensive people, if you are nasty pieces of work who say sexist racist homophobe shite as a matter of course, I do not want to know you!

rant off!

[Slurpling]

and as an aside, is this kind of low level seething feeling normal for women in what is perceived to be male space? (online, internet, only for those with lots of free time).

And am I a bad feminist for making all my gold from selling skimpy armour to males playing female characters? since this is the only 'women's issue' EVER discussed on wow forums and any more general discussion of women's experience online is shot down by men instantly. HRRRRRGGGFFFRRGGRRR.

[TheDoctrineOfSciAndNatureClub]

Seething is very common and understandable, Slurpling!

[TheDoctrineOfSciAndNatureClub]

I actually think my entire DAY might fail the Bechdel test today. I will observe and try not to swing it one way or the other.

[CaptainWentworth]

Don't normally post in FWR (only lurk) but any discussion of the issues facing women in science really touches a chord with me.

I did biology, chemistry and maths A levels and then went on to an MChem degree at one of the top unis for the subject. I wasn't top of the class once I got there by any means, partly because I never seemed to acquire the necessary techniques for cramming loads of information before exams (was anyone ever taught this? Would have been useful to know!). But anyway, I loved the practical work, and encouragement from my final year MChem project supervisor convinced me to go for a PhD.

Once I was doing my research though I felt lack of confidence tripped me up at every turn. That link about women talking to me about science- that was me. My little research group was fine but every time I spoke to my male peers I left the conversation feeling utterly inferior. They were so sure of themselves - like, all of them! Probably didn't help that we shared our lab with one of the most mysogynistic groups- posters of glamour girls, notices about masturbating in showers and a presenteeist culture.

Also the stuff about funding- everything I saw and heard about progressing in research made it sound as though you had to be super humanly excellent to get anywhere. I just wanted somewhere I could continue my lab tinkering quietly but there didn't seem to be a place for me and I didn't know where to look really- I needed a mentor but my (male) supervisor was a bit rubbish in that respect.

So I ended up on a graduate training course and have just qualified as an accountant, but I'm still sad that I'm not a scientist any more. Sorry for the long tale of woe- it's the one thing that really gets to me.

Anyway off to work now!

[TerrariaMum]

I think with the women in science thing there is a notion that you have to be brilliant and do something amazingly notable or else you contribute to the idea that women can't do science.

Tinkering quietly away seems to me to be seen as not good enough. So I agree with you Captain, it gets to me too. Have PMed you.

[AbigailAdams]

"I actually think my entire DAY might fail the Bechdel test today." You know what - same here! Unless we count chatting on-line with women. Because I have a household full of males, a team full of males at work and the two women at work I generally speak to, are off!

CaptainW that is really sad. Sorry you had to put up that.

Slurping, IME primarily male on-line spaces are sexist/misogynist place guaranteed to increase your blood pressure on a regular basis. I tend to avoid them now. I have enough men in my life without having to choose to hear yet more men and their views [yawn].

[UptoapointLordCopper]

When would we realise that reinforcing stereotype does no one any good? When when when?

[UptoapointLordCopper]

OK - I asked MNHQ to withdraw my previous message on account of too much details. Attack of paranoia. Will repost with less details:

I've had one conversation unrelated to work, on the subject of fixing minor mechanical problems. I was pleased (and unsurprised) one of my male colleague complaining about how some men are quite boastful of how they can fix anything, when they can't, in reality, but would refuse to read the manual. I'm a read-the-manual person myself.

I had another conversation with mother and daughter. Mother said "girls play nicely, boys break rules". Daughter agreed.

And I met another friend with a daughter. She bemoaned the misfortune of girls having to have long hair.

I'm not sure this passes the Bechdel test?

[TheDoctrineOfSciAndNatureClub]

Yes, it passes the test - something that passes the test isn't necessarily feminist eg Sex and the City.

I think my day failed, unless saying Hello as I passed female colleagues in the corridor counts.

[UptoapointLordCopper]

Are we still chatting?

I'm half way through Delusions of Gender. It's making me see misogyny everywhere. Am I turning paranoid or is misogyny everywhere?

[TheDoctrineOfSciAndNatureClub]

Which answer would make you feel better ?

[UptoapointLordCopper]

This one: .

[AbigailAdams]

It is everywhere

Welcome, you have officially taken the blue pill (or it could be the red pill )

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

Yellow pills are the way to go