Random men speaking to you

[enimmead]

I'm sure men don't randomly speak to other men in the street. Strangers. So why the hell do they feel they have to speak to random women. I don't think it's got anything to do with chatting up.

Yesterday, I saw a 20 something bloke with his mates slip in front of me on the ice. As I got out, he said "Hi love, did you see that!!!" I'm could be his mum bit older than him. Why speak to me? I just smiled but I bet he wouldn't' have said anything if I'd been male.

Just walking down the street, other side of the road bloke smiles and says "Hi love". No idea who he was.

Do blokes do this to other random blokes?

Indeed you have, Kim!

Yes. Blokes do this to other blokes. A lot of us, men and women, geniunely enjoy socialising with people. Even random people. Personally it makes my day brighter. It makes my wife's day brighter. It makes my daughters' day brighter.

We are really going round in circles now. I think if it had been me getting out of the car instead of enimead the young lads may well have made a comment to me. Substituting love for mate. It sounds to me as if he made it out of embarrassment.

As for where conversation crosses a line, well what one person finds objectionable another wouldn't. Some thins probably wouldn't be considered objectionable but anyone but the most unsociable. some things would be found objectionable by any reasonable person. And in between, well.......

but should be by

The requirement to double check what I have written, before hitting the "post message" button is directly proportional to the amount of wine consumed.

I don't usually make comments to passing women Kim. I do lack self confidence and I am also more sensitive than your average male. When I do interact with other people, it might sound corny, but my motivation would be to make them feel better ie to have a laugh together about something. I would be horrified if I thought I made anyone feel uncomfortable. I think I would be more horrified if that person where female TBH.
Why do other men do it? Well some are plonkers who have more confidence in themselves than they should. Some make comments that would be acceptable to some women but not others. Some couldn't care less if they annoy anybody or not.
I do think it is unreasonable though to think that men are going to communicate with women the same way they do with other men. I always treat women with more respect than men though. I say things to men I wouldn't say to women because we men engage in banter sometimes in a way that would be unacceptable when interacting with a woman.

Kim, I think we all know the answer to that one.

Women aren't as strong as men. Men have the privilege of knowing they can initiate conversation yet at the same time stop any unwanted advances. Women don't.

Also, society tells women that it is unladylike for them to be too forward, especially in public.

I'd chat to anyone on the street if I could. But I've been taught not to.

Inde, I don't think anyone is complaining about you and I'm sure it is obvious to the women you do talk to that you are just being sociable.

WRT the banter though, I do think it is a shame that women miss out on the comradely banter. We're not precious princesses. I often think this faux protection of women excludes us from lots of stuff, although I'm sure you have the best of intentions.

Walking "be the change you want to see in the world" so said a fairly influential Indian chap about 65 years ago. Try it maybe.

"I'm not sure if you read my post in your other thread but I am frustrated at women for not being stronger. I've often stuggled with the abuser/victim thing and who is at fault, the man for being a domineering/controlling/belittling bastard or the woman for allowing herself to be compromised."

Funny, I don't struggle with that at all. I've got no problem naming who is at fault, it's the abuser and anything else is just victim-blaming.

This stuff about women should just stop feeling intimidated by men and decide they're going to be confident and strong, is all very well, but unfortunately doesn't take into account the very real existence of male violence. Millions of women go out for the day deciding to be happy, confident, sassy and choosing to not feel weaker or like victims. Unfortunately, that doesn't stop men attacking them. No amount of confidence and chutzpah will prevent a man who is stronger than you, from inflicting violence on you if that is what he has decided to do. Telling women to stop feeling intimidated by men when 1 in 4 of them experience sexual violence from them and 1 in 4 experience domestic violence (there will be some cross-over there) is pointless - tell men to stop being violent.

"Assuming we reached the ultimate feminist goal, would you still feel intimidated by groups of men, due to their physicality?"

Women aren't intimidated by men due to their physicality. It's due to their behaviour. Those of us who haven't experienced male violence, have usually experienced a threat of it, it's a rare woman who hasn't.

Hi Kim I can't speak for your experiences. I can't answer why.

Looking back at my past, I can see that the more I became aware of the prejudices I faced through my life, the more I looked for it and the more I found.

When I started to become more comfortable in myself again, the less I looked for the prejudice and the less I found.

I still have my wobbles and am now very aware of how my own "chipiness" (for want of a better word) can increase the prejudices I face. I try my best not to look for want I don't want to see.

I'm not sure all women share your enthusiasm for male banter walkingcups. fsmile]

I remember being at a social event where one man said to another who was on a lower level "I can see your bald spot from up here Dave". He got severely told off by some of his female colleagues but Dave was not bothered at all. Perhaps not the best of examples. The equivalent of saying it to a female might be drawing attention to grey hair. I just wouldn't do it.

Inde, that's probably because women are unfortunately brought up to be more invested in their looks.

Giveme, who says I don't? But one can only change one's own behaviour, not someone else's or their misinterpretation of yours. In spite of all that I've always tried to be friendly to anyone I know. Usually it's fine but sometimes it leads to trouble.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch

The many examples given thus far from many female posters has been of men dick waving and coming on in an overtly offensive manner. Therefore I was attempting to establish what type of offence was being caused i.e. sexual, power, etc. etc.

Yes, I provided the list in an attempt to work out what one can establish given the seeminly simple question:

'Alright love, did you see me slip?'

What you basically seem to be saying is that despite all the subsequent (and very extreme) examples given, this was nothing sexual at all. Fine, I get that now.

Therefore it boils down to him asking a basic, non-sexual question and whether the OP felt it was made because she is a woman and not a man.

If I am correct then the answer in 99.99% of cases is No. Men make random comments to other men all the time, exept they often say 'mate', 'geezer', 'man', 'bud', 'fella' etc. There's no 'if not' becase we most certainly do talk randomly. It has nothing to do with any sexist entitlement or any sense of women 'having' to listen to our spiel. If this is really all the OP's query is based on then she is reading far too much into it.

Don't forget that 20 something males generally talk a lot of s#it. I know because I was there once. We talk a lot of random s#it in fact and to anybody.

If it were me the outcome could have been like this.

Him: 'S#it man, did you just see me slip?'
Me: 'bloody hell mate, are you ok? you could have fallen flat on your backside, ha, ha. take it easy man'
Him: 'yeah will do'

End of story.

FestiviaBlueberry

Although my post you quoted was quite long I suggest you re-read it and tell me why I should not be equally scared of people in this country. You cannot throw statistics at me I'm afraid as I have the potential to receive just as much, if not more. Yet I walk around and live my day to day life quite free from the angst you speak of. Why is this? (clue, the answer is in my earlier post).

Re: the abuser or the victim. Is the man wrong for not doing any washing up or the woman for doing it all in silent contempt? There are a lot of women that moan about lazy husbands but don't air their dissatisfaction. Who is really at fault? It's like work. Is my employer bad for not rectifying a situation if I've not made him/her aware of my issues?

I have a feeling you're thinking of rape and domestic violence, which is not what I was talking about. I was referring to the notion that women are often victims because of the chores that are expected of them.

Women aren't intimidated by men due to their physicality. It's due to their behaviour. Those of us who haven't experienced male violence, have usually experienced a threat of it, it's a rare woman who hasn't.

I'm sorry but if you read comments from SomersetONeil a few pages back you will see that she clearly feels intimidated by the presence of groups of men. This is what I was talking about.

And I'm sorry but you cannot post statistics of 1 in 4 for sexual violence and domestic violence respectively; state that there is some crossover and then close your post by saying that it's a rare woman that hasn't experienced male violence. By your own stats, over half of women do not experience sexual/domestic violence so which is it?

Well said, Festivia.

FG2: what type of offence was being caused i.e. sexual, power, etc. etc.

It's always power. Every kind of abuse is an abuse of power. The incidents you may have labelled sexual offences were abuses of power - generally, iirc, using the witness's fear to behave abusively. In fact, crimes labelled by the police as sexual offences are abuses of power and it says so in the manual.

The overwhelming majority of abuses suffered by women are minor. Each one, though, is some twat taking advantage of his size or status, or of women's socialisation to "not make a fuss" - we are also trained to feel ashamed when we feel abused; something harassers use very much to their advantage. A multitude of minor abuses add up to a general feeling of unsafeness which, without specific training, causes very many women to actually live in fear. The fact that women need specific training to help handle the daily assault course of mixed society suggests there's something badly wrong with that society.

By the way, I've known men to be utterly furious at someone pointing out their bald patch or grey hairs! Vanity's ungendered, ime!

We are all different....some are more tolerant. Some need to get out more!!

Yet another put-down for women who are trying to tell what bothers them. Nice one, Peter.

Do you have daughters?

Yes I have....and I will teach her tolerance. All because her views may be different, doesn't make the other persons wrong. Just makes them what they are....different.

Hmm. Good luck with that. See how you get on when she's 14 and boys are pressuring her to send them photos of her tits. She may find 'tolerance' isn't that much of a viable option.

Ah, I sort of wish I was you. I wish people would strike up random conversations with me. I do it with them (men and women), but they often seem shocked. And I am not talking very shocking remarks here. More like 'whoa, that car was going a bit fast!' I guess people aren't used to it in a big city.

I know what you mean though, and guess I am not pretty enough (and have never been) to get random remarks from men. So in a way it is sort of flattering. In another way I can see how you would like to be valued as a person, rather than a pretty 'thing'.

As the other poster said, you might actually miss it when you get to a certain age and it won't happen any more (;

The best way to solve it: find a way of answering to these remarks that make it tolerable or - better even - fun for you. Play a mind game with them. Say something unexpected, or in a weird voice. Make it so you 'own' the conversation and you will feel infinitely better.

I lived in India for a while, and being white/blonde was very obvious. So, in supermarkets half the staff would come and offer to push my cart and get things for me. It was incredibly annoying. As I would first kindly, then angrily send them away, and felt bad for turning down help offered so cruelly.

Then, knowing they were just being innocent and intrigued, I made it into a game. I learned a few words in their language, and then sent them off getting my shopping. They loved it, and shopping became a fun experience. I was back in control. And - unlike many other white visitors - was no longer grumpy and angry about all the annoying attention.

FG22, so you feel the bloke in the OP would have made the same comment to whoever was there.

I think you are also saying that in 99.99% of cases where a bloke makes a comment to a woman, he would have made that same comment, using "mate" instead of "love" to another bloke, perhaps to chibi's 18-stone exemplar. Is that a correct interpretation of your post?

If so, how would you feel if I told you that 99.99% of those who had made racist comments to you would have found something else nasty to say if you'd been white? Would you think, "yeah, that's fair, so what am I worrying about"? Or would you think that you, as the recipient of the comments, was better able to judge that than me as a white person?

I may be a little jealous?....but can't remember the last time a woman stranger made an innocent off hand comment to me during the day. Men do to me, in lighthearted ways (especially around Xmas now?). Maybe its the part of the world I live in??

From my interpretation, the guy in the OP had just slipped on ice. He may of been embarrassed, or relieved he hadn't gone on his arse!? I say hi to anyone at times like that.

As for the general issue of unwanted talk from men. I know a lady who considers herself an ardent feminist, and considers it to be unwanted only when she doesn't fancy the man making the comment. How confusing for the the average caveman in the street?

As for 'tits on a phone' garlic.....I'm not looking forward to the issue in the slightest. However that's not what this thread is about.